.45 cal deer load

[bronko220002]

Ahh yes to straight

It is very possible your barrel WASN’T made exactly right in the first place.
Manufacturers set tolerances for straightness and bore centering.
Mauser, Sharps, and other famous makers had barrel straightening equipment that were used on a daily basis. I would imagine it is still a common practice for modern manufacturers.
You would be surprised how little flexing it actually takes to change POI a small amount .
I have never straightened a rifle barrel, but I have done it to several shotgun barrels to move the center of the pattern, Easy to do.
I would not hesitate to do it to one of my own rifles if it needed it.

To straighten a barrel yes I would agree. But in today's modern age of CNC machining and other machining processes it would be difficult to NOT create a straight barrel. A rifle and a shotgun are entirely two different animals. The shotgun is a short range firearm. Think about it for a minute. If you bend a rifle barrel to make it out of straightness and sight it in at say 50 yards. At 100 yards it will be way off because the bend was set at the 50 yard range. This is the reason double rifles are regulated for a specific yardage. At some point beyond that yardage the bullets will cross paths and get further away from each other the farther the yardage.

 

[smoothshooter]

Ahh yes to straight

To straighten a barrel yes I would agree. But in today's modern age of CNC machining and other machining processes it would be difficult to NOT create a straight barrel. A rifle and a shotgun are entirely two different animals. The shotgun is a short range firearm. Think about it for a minute. If you bend a rifle barrel to make it out of straightness and sight it in at say 50 yards. At 100 yards it will be way off because the bend was set at the 50 yard range. This is the reason double rifles are regulated for a specific yardage. At some point beyond that yardage the bullets will cross paths and get further away from each other the farther the yardage.

I understand about double rifles, and all. But we are not talking about that. And I also know about the improvements made possible by CNC machining IF the machines are set up correctly and the machine components are not worn.
But something failed in the manufacturing process or you would not be having the problems described.
Straightening rifle barrels has been done for hundreds of years, apparently with a great deal of success.
Hopefully some barrel makers will chime in on this subject that have actually straightened barrels.

 

[BillyC]

I haven’t adjusted for elevation yet so bending the barrel discussions are premature. My 50 yard group is 2 1/4 inches high so I either have to adjust my sight picture or it a taller front sight, correct? I think I’ll hold off on the taller sight until I’ve shot a good bit more, I’m still tinkering with loads and my sight alignment needs a lot more work. 2 1/4 inches at 50 yards is not going to make a bit of difference on a whitetail but I’ll keep working on refining things just the same.

 

[bronko220002]

I understand about double rifles, and all. But we are not talking about that. And I also know about the improvements made possible by CNC machining IF the machines are set up correctly and the machine components are not worn.
But something failed in the manufacturing process or you would not be having the problems described.
Straightening rifle barrels has been done for hundreds of years, apparently with a great deal of success.
Hopefully some barrel makers will chime in on this subject that have actually straightened barrels.

Clearly we are having an inability to communicate. Let's see if I can rephrase what I'm saying. If the barrel is straight which is most likely the case the accuracy issue, if any, can be improved with a change in components or powder charge. Any bending of a straight barrel would make that barrel hit point of aim at a specific yardage. Any shorter or longer distance the point of impact will change to one side and the other. Note: for all intents and purposes a straight barrel and line of sight are one and the same as far as left and right are concerned.
If the barrel is bent than for sure straightening is necessary.

 

[smoothshooter]

I understand your point very well, and have given it some thought over the years.
I think the potential problem is more theoretical than actual.
It is more likely that your barrel is bent than bored off center.
I have seen pictures of hand powered barrel straightening machinery in the Mauser plant, and the Sharps factory as well.
Seemed to work fine for them.

 

[Lpcstrider420]

Clearly we are having an inability to communicate. Let's see if I can rephrase what I'm saying. If the barrel is straight which is most likely the case the accuracy issue, if any, can be improved with a change in components or powder charge. Any bending of a straight barrel would make that barrel hit point of aim at a specific yardage. Any shorter or longer distance the point of impact will change to one side and the other. Note: for all intents and purposes a straight barrel and line of sight are one and the same as far as left and right are concerned.
If the barrel is bent than for sure straightening is necessary.View attachment 214105

Bullets dont curve.... even from a "bent" barrel.

 

[bronko220002]

Bullets dont curve.... even from a "bent" barrel.

I know that but if a barrel is bent and you sight it in for 50 yards, depending on the direction of the bend the bullet will be on one side of line of sight closer than 50 yards and on the other side greater than 50 yards and will continue on that path moving farther from the line of sight the farther out.
A straight barrel = line of sight. There would be no left or right variation except for wind.
The bullet path I am trying to illustrate shows the bent barrel but i see what you're saying. My diagram isn't to clear.
Let's just for kicks assume the barrel is bent a little from right to left. You set your target at 25 yards and shoot a group. So you're hitting left so you adjust your sights to hit point of aim (POA). Now you move your target out to 50 yards. Guess what? Your sights haven't changed but your hitting to the left again! And the farther your distance, the farther left your bullets will impact. The bullet isn't curving and the direction it left the muzzle is still consistent. It is impossible to have a line of sight = a bullet path from a bent barrel at all ranges. Only the range it is sighted in for.

 

[mtfishn]

I have been taking woods goat with a round ball for a long time. Most folks would scoff at my powder charge in my .50 Kentucky. But for me, the most important part is KNOWING where that ball is gonna go. So I use the most accurate load in my rifle. And within 50 yards the deer still act like they got hit with Thor's hammer. I use a wheel weight alloy cast ball and get complete pass through the boiler room. I'm not concerned at all with the ball expanding, heck with a .45 -50 cal you already have dang near a half inch hole you are about to punch in em. Lots of folks get tied up in ballistics charts, but you're not trying to put down a moose. A little ole white tail averaging 150 lbs is not hard to kill within reasonable distance and you doing your part.

I've not had good luck using WWeights for PRBs. Years ago I shot a MD Doe @ under 35yds broadside. The w/weight ball passed completely through both lungs and exited. The deer ran then fell/bedded about 35yds from where it was hit. Its head was up...I reloaded just to be safe(?) and took one step toward the deer thinking I may need a finishing shot. Up she jumped and ran ....and ran....Thinking she would soon fall I hesitated, but nearing 100yds, I fired to try to end this. This second ball passed between her rear legs and entered just behind the brisket, (as she was coming down from a bound) continued forward and lodged in her neck, nearly 30" of penetration....she never flinched but kept running. After another 50yds she went down and was dead in a few seconds. The 2nd ball I recovered from her neck was as smooth and shiny, round as the day it was cast. I suspect .50 cal and larger balls may work OK in harder alloys, but I always use pure lead anymore and have had little problem with bullet performance in my .45 or .54 rifles. The powder charge was 75gr of FFF.

 

[Frontstuffer070]

I've not had good luck using WWeights for PRBs. Years ago I shot a MD Doe @ under 35yds broadside. The w/weight ball passed completely through both lungs and exited. The deer ran then fell/bedded about 35yds from where it was hit. Its head was up...I reloaded just to be safe(?) and took one step toward the deer thinking I may need a finishing shot. Up she jumped and ran ....and ran....Thinking she would soon fall I hesitated, but nearing 100yds, I fired to try to end this. This second ball passed between her rear legs and entered just behind the brisket, (as she was coming down from a bound) continued forward and lodged in her neck, nearly 30" of penetration....she never flinched but kept running. After another 50yds she went down and was dead in a few seconds. The 2nd ball I recovered from her neck was as smooth and shiny, round as the day it was cast. I suspect .50 cal and larger balls may work OK in harder alloys, but I always use pure lead anymore and have had little problem with bullet performance in my .45 or .54 rifles. The powder charge was 75gr of FFF.

I went to a little harder ball to intentionally get pass throughs. It can get pretty thick in these parts. I like two holes leaking if they run some. Upon inspection of the internals the ball still does a good amount of damage if I do my part and put it iwhere it needs to go.

 

[Jay Templin]

In my .45 Hawken I use 70-75 grain of 2Fg and a patched .445 ball. Hasn’t failed me yet.
Jay

 

[Mike in FL]

Someone mentioned s Seneca 45. I'd trade my house for one of those. I let mine long ago. Stupid, stupid. I even had a little Cherokee 45 back then. Great guns to use on any game that needs killing with a m/l.

 

[Sparkitoff]

I load a 9.5" barrel single shot handgun with 35 grains FFFg and a .440 ball for deer hunting. I have a blind and a tree stand, and either allow for a 30-yd max range. A good double lung with that loading at any range inside the 30-mark and its venision for dinner.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

Planning to use my new .45 cal Kibler SMR to hunt deer this fall. I’m getting 1 inch three shot groups at 25 yards with 60 grains of Scheutzen. Is this powerful enough for PA deer or do I need to keep upping the powder charge? I’ll eventually sight in dead on at 50 yards and will be limiting myself to 75-80 yard shots.

45 grs 3F is all you need. I shoot 45 grs in my .45 SMR with patched RB and get sub 1" groups at 100yds. I think too much powder is making your shots open up. The more powder you use, the more recoil you have. Therefore, the more the rifle moves as the ball exits the muzzle causing the group to open. I've dropped deer well over 100yds with only 45 grs. Mike in Fl. is correct. My .50 also likes 60 grs 2F. I see people using 110 grs. That's like 8" of powder in the barrel, WHY?
Billy, I know you're not far from me. Come on up for a day of shooting and we'll get you set. I have a range on my property. Order some pizza and make a day of it. Yes, you can bring the family. Cook Forest. 12mi north of Brookville on Rt. 36. I have all the powder and roundball we will ever need. Semper Fi.

 

[BillyC]

45 grs 3F is all you need. I shoot 45 grs in my .45 SMR with patched RB and get sub 1" groups at 100yds. I think too much powder is making your shots open up. The more powder you use, the more recoil you have. Therefore, the more the rifle moves as the ball exits the muzzle causing the group to open. I've dropped deer well over 100yds with only 45 grs. Mike in Fl. is correct. My .50 also likes 60 grs 2F. I see people using 110 grs. That's like 8" of powder in the barrel, WHY?
Billy, I know you're not far from me. Come on up for a day of shooting and we'll get you set. I have a range on my property. Order some pizza and make a day of it. Yes, you can bring the family. Cook Forest. 12mi north of Brookville on Rt. 36. I have all the powder and roundball we will ever need. Semper Fi.

Thank you for the generous offer, I will certainly consider it.