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45 cal PRB for mule deer.

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Truly all shot placement, .45 or .58 bad shot, LOOOONG track and maybe no deer. .45 or ,58 good shot, dead dear. WILL TO LIVE means something. Antelope will die easy in most instances. Small to medium deer and small cow elk too. However if you have hunted alot and have alot of time helping others you will soon learn an elk can go 1/4 mile with about no blood left to track. Buddys dad (detective for G&F) hit a cow with an arrow, double lung at a waterhole. As she started to wobble a "van of hippies" arrived and said elk went 1/4 mile with not much blood at all, though she had bled profusely and coughed blood before hippie show and tell. Hit a big bull elk n the boiler room with a .58 PRB, conical or a .338 win mag and it can drop there or run hundreds of yards, some times with no blood trail. If yer a good hunter (can hit an animal that dont know yer there is best) a .45 PRB is likely all ya need. But since I once shot a 30 inch mulie in the liver with a .243 and had to track an shoot for another hour you'll find me carrying a .54 most days. Once shot a trotting buck at 180 yds with a .45 conical (in young dumb days). We tracked said buck 4.9 miles as the crow flies and into another unit before I crept up on it and shot it again in the arse (first hit a lil low and back and nicked the liver enough to bleed a bit for tracking then circled till we jumped him again).

Ya know, to me its about the animal. I watched a stupid youtube showing a he-man killing black bear with a blow gun. Horrible. Suffered bad. He man needs an *** beating in my book. .45 prb for smaller deer is good. .54 is MUCH better, ya aint gonna hurt anymore meat. This years deer I shot with a .50. This deer would have been taken easy with a .36 per circumstances of being the second smallest legal buck I ever even saw and being 35 yards away and not knowing he was dinner. But if MR BIG showed up I wanted the lil bit better of an edge.

All an opinion folks, like it said above folks will do what folks will do anyways??


Pop's two Does he shot this morning with his .45 Plains Rifle were both perfect shots. One through both lungs, in and out, and she went 20y. The other he shot just as she landed from jumping a fence. He hit both lungs and her heart, also in and out. She ran 50y. Would she have made it so far if the same shot had been a .50? I don't know, but 50y with a blown out heart and liquified lungs is quite a feat.... I shot a little doe last week with the .58. I did hit her high and forward a bit from 65y and it knocked her down but she popped back up and ran 30y before crashing.
 
Regarding elk, my buddies bull this year was taken at slightly over 25 yards with an unmentionable suppository. That shot clipped a rib on entry, tore through the nearside lung and passed through the liver. A piece of that clipped rib shot downward and punched a hole in the one chamber of the heart. We followed blood for over a mile into the thickest, deepest and nastiest canyon in our area for 4 hours. As we approached a mud hole up he stands and a finishing shot was required. I won’t mention calibre but will say it is likely the single most popular for elk hunting. People have no idea how tough elk are!
Walk
 
I can't speak for conical bullets since I shoot prb exclusively; but the round ball will do the job as well as anything else. The .45 has been my go-to rifle for many years and has accounted for many, some quite large, whitetails. I've killed them up to 75 yards with a .45 and got complete penetration; none ran far or required a second shot. Deer, and even black bear, can be efficiently taken with a .45 round ball. Many of the whitetails I've taken were taken with quartering shots and penetration was NOT an issue. But that's with deer. Elk are another story. They are huge, tough and resilient. Elk would be the limit where I'd go larger if using prb. I've never killed an elk but would consider the .50 to be the very lightest, reasonable caliber to use. A .54 is even better. There's a large size disparity between deer and elk.
 
Is this all moot? Would one's state allow .45 PRB for mule deer?

I bought up a bunch of new old stock Hornady Great Plains Bullets in .45 for the local deer...haven't tried any yet though.
 
Some very astute and thoughtful writing going on here as well as wonderfully interesting. Funny how hunters' experiences can be so much the same and yet so different. I dropped a 6x6 bull elk in Colorado absolutely in his tracks with a .270 in the liver, and I put a .54 prb through and through a whitetail doe's lungs and found her 350 yards away after following and losing the blood trail....took 2 hours.
 
I've killed 4 mulies with both .44 and .54 PRB. All have been longer shots in the 80-100 yard range. All were pass throughs and one shot kills, mainly both lungs, and most ran over 100 yds. before dying, go figure. With one I shot with the .54 at 90 yds. or so, the ball actually left a furrow on the side of the heart and took out both lungs. He went about 220 yds. before falling over. Not much blood, just spots here and there and eventually pieces of lung tissue. The only reason I think he made it so far is that he was running with a group of bucks that sucked him along in their draft at the shot. I shoot a .433 patched ball w/ 60 grs. of 3f in the .44, and a .530 patched ball w/ 105 grs of 2f in the .54. I agree as that one gets older, the .44 is much more fun to carry than the .54, which with my rifles the .54 is 4 lbs. heavier. However, the ML deer season runs with the elk season here, and if I have an elk tag, I always carry the .54.
 
Is this all moot? Would one's state allow .45 PRB for mule deer?

I bought up a bunch of new old stock Hornady Great Plains Bullets in .45 for the local deer...haven't tried any yet though.

AZ has NO SIZE LIMIT. Yep, my traditions crockett .32 is perfectly legal for elk cuz it has a single barrel and loads from the muzzle. Proof that laws/rules are made by those with the least knowledge of said subject!!

The Forest Service (here anyways) has designated many no drive areas for the forest and we cannot drive hardly anywhere we used to. This per ATV damage in mud? I would bet anyone $100.00 the majority of the legislators that passed this have never been on an unpaved road ever. We can walk though and when we find a tree while walking we can drive through the forest to cut firewood. If we found it walking a closed road though we cannot drive on the road we have to drive off the road alongside it. Yep, we elected em, we seem to be on a roll, still.......?
 
Do to the necessities of life I sold off all my weapons back in the early 90 's. The one I most regret selling was a custom, .62 caliber, fullstock, flintlock "Hawken" rifle.

I put Hawken in quotes because I now know that the rifle I had built, and delivered, in 1989 WAS NOT a Hawken rifle, no matter what I thought at the time.

It had a 38" long, swamped, 1:48" twist, Getz barrel that was factory coned. I could thumb start a patched ball more than halfway into the bore. I used a home-made short starter (1/2" diameter) only to take the stress off of the 7/16" diameter ramrod. The short starter really was not necessary, as if one choked up close to the muzzle with the ramrod, the coned muzzle allowed the patched ball to be pushed down into the bore until any chance of breaking the ramrod was eliminated.

I had the builder install a hooked, Nock-style, chambered breechplug to fit the long, Hawken-style tang. This was before you could buy them as cast parts from T.O.W. Cost me roughly $200.00 in machine shop time, but was worth it. Along with one of the, then fairly new, Chambers White Lightnin' touch hole liners & one of my favorite locks, the large Siler flint; ignition was as fast as any rifle I've ever owned.

Curly maple, stained very dark. All steel parts, except for the ramrod tip. Steel parts browned. No patchbox. Plains-style buttstock with beavertail cheekpiece. Three captured barrel keys with oval escutcheon plates. Long doubleset triggers, double bolted to the beavertail tang. Scroll triggerguard.

In retrospect, kind of a mish-mash of design ideas, and parts. I do not believe the builder signed it, although I asked him to.

When I first started shooting it I started with 50 grains of fffg Goex, and by the end of the first range session had settled on 75 grains of fffg Goex. Because that's what I had on hand to shoot with the first time out, and sometimes serendipity shows right up in the beginning.

By the end of three hours in that first shooting session, I was able (with my lousy eyesight), to keep 5 shots consistently in a 50-cent sized group from the bench. And, about 1.5" diameter groups, on average, offhand. This was at 50 yards.

Which was then, and still is, my self-imposed limit for open sight hunting. Unless a weapon has a telescopic sight on it, I simply cannot see well enough to ethically take a shot at any game animal past that distance. Period. I made that pledge to myself when I was in my 20's, and for all the years that I hunted, I never failed to keep my pledge. There were some huge disappointments, when game was past my range, but thems the breaks.

Simply put, that was as well as I could shoot at that time in my life. Sometimes Mr. Murphy is looking in the opposite direction.

I LOVED that rifle. With 75 grains of fffg black powder, and a 0.610" diameter lead ball weighing about 340 grains, recoil was very moderate. I have no recollection of the patch material I was using then.

Vis-a-vis recoil, I should also mention that I had asked for a wide, flat, early-style buttplate, instead of the typical hooked, deeply-curved Hawken buttplate.

As I recall, the weight was right around 9 pounds. Even with the sling swivels that that rifle had, that is more weight than I want to carry around now that I am 66, and have progressive osteoarthritis.

So a .45 caliber is the absolute maximum that I can consider shooting any longer. More likely a .40 caliber.

Even though the "Little Devil" on my left shoulder keeps whispering sweet nothings into my ears trying to convince me to go with a .58 caliber, or larger.

So far, my "Good Angel" on my right shoulder has kept me from that mistake/stupidity.
 
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I have killed an 800 pound grizzly and I can tell you that when the the moment comes, you will be wishing you had a bigger gun than the one you brought.
Only a couple reasons to use a .45 on whitetail when a .54 is available: A. You are afraid of recoil B. You can't afford the extra .08 cents for powder and lead.
Or you got the 45 before you knew what you were in to ?
 
I grew up in Northern Alaska and hunted Toklat Griz in the Brooks Range or along the Yukon many dozens of times from 11yo until I left home and went into the Marine Corps. We’d do two to three-week hunts regularly for these silver-back griz who are always starving and living on mice, moles, and berries and will track you across the tundra long before you know they are there. Dad used a 30-06 on these bear with either iron sights or a 3x9 up close for 20 years. On one of our hunts we crested a rise and a griz was less than a hundred yards away already on his hinds and sniffing our direction. By the time we realized what time it was, he was already at a full gallop, and by the time dads buddy Gordon started screaming for dad to shoot him the bear was at a full run. Dad hit this bear twice in about 5 seconds and the third shot took him right in the forehead at about 30 yards. I was 15 and the shotgunner and stood there peeing in my pants as Gordon screamed and Pop laid the bear down right in front of us. We were 5 days from the plane coming in that day and we spent the last days looking at each other funny while fishing for Grayling and eating grilled backstrap. Dad never took the little 30 cal hunting again. He was a 460 Weatherby man from then on out. Use what does the job, depending on the job at hand, and based on experience....
 
I lived in Alaska for 2 years. Never encountered a grizzly bear, Thank You God!!!

Saw their prints several times, and once returned to the car when I realized that the prints were less than 5 minutes old (fresh steaming scat further along), and we were unarmed. Failure to listen to advice. To be armed when going afield. Alaska is WILD, which includes Anchorage when the animals are hungry.

When large apex predators are NOT an everyday part of ones experience, it can be difficult to assimilate the sage advice that native Alaskans, and Westerners give out to inexperienced newcomers.

Especially, if you tend to be a hardheaded, know-it-all like I (and my friends) were when I was younger.

Bob, that's not the first story about how fast a grizzly bear can move that I have heard. I worked with a native born kid in Anchorage who when he was 18 was exploring Alaska before college. He grounded his skiff, walked about 50m to the top of a slight ridge, spied a grizzly bear over a 1000m away across two small valleys.

The wind was blowing his scent in the bear's direction. IMMEDIATELY upon smelling him, the bear stopped feeding on berries, swapped directions, and started charging at a full gallup towards him. Although armed with a marine-grade, 12 gauge, pump shotgun loaded with Brenneke rifled slugs; he ran down the slope towards his skiff as fast as possible.

By the time he reached the skiff, he could hear the bear behind him. He pushed the boat into the water, started the outboard motor, and with no time to turn the skiff around, just backed up as fast as the motor would go.

The grizzly pursued him 50m out into the water, snapping its jaws furiously, before giving up. He was afraid to try shooting for fear the bear would capsize the skiff before he could get both hands on the shotgun to control it.

If I was only going to be able to afford one m-l rifle, and I would be living in wolf/cougar/grizzly/moose/elk country then I think my minimum would have to be a .58 caliber.
 
I hope you are not referring to a .58 muzzle gun RJ. No such rifle should be trusted for self defense against a grizzly or brown bear. That also goes for any caliber handgun.
 
I am guilty of being a deviator (not deviate!), which is to say going off topic in a thread. My apologies.

To get back to the OP's question, yes a .45 caliber patched ball, with even a moderate charge of black powder behind it, will kill a mule deer. Given the shooter understands his rifle's limitations, as well as his/her own.

For myself, carrying a rangfinder to accurately KNOW WITHOUT DOUBT, whether I am within the range of my rifle's capabilities, will allow me to return to hunting with what many people feel is an inadequate m-l caliber.

And practicing until I am completely confident that I can make all manner of shots, from all types of shooting positions, utilizing the rangefinder while walking/shooting afield. Similar to practice shooting with blunts with a stick bow.
 
Trouble is, nobody always gets a a broadside, standing still shot, inside 65 yards, but that won't stop people from taking a shot. You can deride folks all day and all night, call them this and that, but it won't change a thing. It is what it is. Not good to give newbee's the idea that a .45 patched round ball going slingshot velocity is a deadly killing machine cause it just isn't, even in the hands of an experienced hunter.
It would be wise for people getting into hunting with a M.L. to take this post seriously! I have seen the difference in what a 54 compared to a 45 and even a 50 Cal. R.B. is. A designed bullet is another story! It makes a huge difference!
 
I’m always intrigued by the “choice of caliber” debates whether pertaining to open sighted muzzleloaders or modern weapons for deer sized game. Over 5+ decades the aggregate of viewpoints on this debate seems to be unchanged. With traditional muzzleloading with open sights 90% of the shots on game will be under 100 yards or so, perhaps even 60 or 70 yards. The muzzleloading calibers in the range we are speaking, and the difference of killing effect can be easily overstated. My deer hunting muzzleloaders have ranged from 45-58 caliber and IMO, the choice of what to use for deer likely has accounted for less then 20% of the success factor, at least from my personal experiences and first hand observations of others. The other 80% influencing success are several, such as shooting proficiency/skill, sight choice, when to shoot, shot placement, when/how long to wait at the shot, tracking skills, etc, etc, etc. If the 80% is lacking, choice of caliber is perceived be proportionately higher. One may believe they have an edge with the increased hole size of .1 inches but the enhanced confidence may turn out to be an illusion. Each animal I’ve shot seems to react differently. For each “dead in their tacks deer”, or “great blood trail” with my 45, * have had a poor one with my 54....and visa-versa.
I am much more interested in the particular rifle I choose raher then the caliber, and pay far more attention to the other aspects of the shot(hunt). But, this is just my viewpoint, and, I’m sure the debate will last forever and my grandkids will one day encounter this same.....hopefully. Life would otherwise be darn boring.
 
I am guilty of being a deviator (not deviate!), which is to say going off topic in a thread. My apologies.

To get back to the OP's question, yes a .45 caliber patched ball, with even a moderate charge of black powder behind it, will kill a mule deer. Given the shooter understands his rifle's limitations, as well as his/her own.

For myself, carrying a rangfinder to accurately KNOW WITHOUT DOUBT, whether I am within the range of my rifle's capabilities, will allow me to return to hunting with what many people feel is an inadequate m-l caliber.

And practicing until I am completely confident that I can make all manner of shots, from all types of shooting positions, utilizing the rangefinder while walking/shooting afield. Similar to practice shooting with blunts with a stick bow.
Know your guns limitations. How many mulies are killed with pointy sticks each year. I doubt any archery tackle can be as deadly as a .45 on a good load. I always tell folks an ML is archery on steroids in terms of ranges and killing ability.
 
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