45 cal question

[RIDE-RED350R]

Hello.
I'm considering getting my teenage daughter a traditional ML in 45 caliber, something along the lines of a TC Seneca. I only have experience with 50 cal and am wondering about 45 caliber bullets. Would I be limited to 45 cal maxi type bullets specifically for MLs or would a cast bullet from any of the huge number of cast bullet makers work? If so would it need .458 (45-70 and similar) or .452 (45 Colt) sized bullets? Or would this not work for other reasons like typical Brinnel hardness?

I've done some searching and didn't quite find the answer.

Thanks

 

[Rock Home Isle]

The .45 is a wonderful calibre, definite favorite of mine. I think what you’re asking is, “Are there conical beyond those commercially available that are good to use?” Forgive my ambiguous wording…

Both my current .45’s are RB barreled guns. And they are primarily paper punchers. But I’ve tested conical projectiles through them and found the short 200gr LEE Real bullet shoots very accurately in both firearms, so much so that I’ll be using one of these .45’s for deer next fall using the LEE projectile.

I also have an ole .45 Colt pistol, and I caste bullets for it. I have a Lyman mold that castes…I believe is a 200gr or 225gr projectil. And that shoots very well in both guns as well.

 

[RIDE-RED350R]

Thank you for the reply.

So these 45 cals like the .452" (45 Colt) size bullet?

The main reason I'm considering a 45 is due to my daughter being kind of petite in size and build. 45 cal is the minimum size we can legally use on deer here. And the old TC rifles you could get in 45 cal are lighter in weight than a Renegade or Hawken 50 cal. She fired my Renegade 50 for the first time last weekend and loved it. This is more about finding a rifle that's a better suited all-round package for her

 

[rafterob]

Traditional would be round balls and that is what I recommend for ease and economy of shooting. If you choose round balls you would want to look for .440 or .445. If set on using a conical, you want to stick with the types made for traditional muzzleloaders and not the modern inline or cartridge guns. T.C maxiball or maxi hunter, lee R.E.A.L. and similar designs.

 

[RIDE-RED350R]

Traditional would be round balls and that is what I recommend for ease and economy of shooting. If you choose round balls you would want to look for .440 or .445. If set on using a conical, you want to stick with the types made for traditional muzzleloaders and not the modern inline or cartridge guns. T.C maxiball or maxi hunter, lee R.E.A.L. and similar designs.

Ok, thank you sir.

I'm not the most experienced or educated in such things. I've owned my Renegade 50 since I bought it new in 1996. Always used Maxis and had good luck with them. Wasn't sure if there could be some crossover suitability with the old 45 cal cartridges, and their "cowboy" type lead bullets. But that answers my question, thank you.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

I use a Beeswax & Lambs Tallow lube, but yeah, they shoot fine for me. My long rifle 42” groups about 2.5 to 3” at 100 yrds, and my 36” rifle groups under 2” most days with the same projectile. For deer sized game…it’ll work fine.

I have a little .40 calibre flintlock, that I wanted to take out hunting for deer, but you have to use a conical bullet in that calibre. Ever try finding a .40 calibre conical bullet, or even a .40 calibre conical mold?

LEE makes a 145gr .40 S&W pistol mold…it shoots great out of my .40 calibre…2” groups at 100 yrds, I can do wonders with that….

 

[Timber Wolf]

Unless you stub your toe on one of the smaller rifles an available commercial .45 will be HEAVIER than a .50. This is because they will have the same barrel profile and OD but a smaller hole. Also, why not just load down the .50? Not trying to talk you out of a .45, I like mine. But, mine are all on larger frames/barrels (T/C Hawkin, CVA Mountain Rifle). I have not yet gotten the T/C to shoot but the CVA is a lazer.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

My .50 calibre CVA Mountain Rifle was my only muzzleloading rifle from 13/14 till I turned 25. What an amazingly accurate rifle.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Either a 45 or 50 would work and both are adequate for hunting whitetail deer with a round ball. As noted a 45 marked rifle typically takes a .440 or .445 patched roundball. .440 seems to be used more commonly and would be where I would start.

 

[Brokennock]

Keep it simple and cheaper and use a patched round ball.

 

[Dave Dworshak]

Brokennock -you could not have said it any better.

 

[R Ellis]

You can find light weight guns in both 45 and 50 also agree on patch round ball for less recoil

 

[Hatman/2nd line]

I have to agree with some of the others here, get a .50 cal. use RB , you'll have a lighter weight gun to carry and load it with as much or less powder.

 

[dave951]

I have a TC White Mountain Carbine in 50cal I have my smaller students shooting. It's short and easy enough for an eleven yo girl to handle. One other consideration, 45cal stuff isn't as common as 50cal.

 

[cynthialee]

I am on team patched round ball. You get in range and put a .440 round ball in a deer's lungs and or heart and it is over. Often right then and there.

I see you are concerned with the Brinell hardness of your bullets. Usually in these guns we tend to shoot the softest lead we can get for ease of loading and obturation of the bullet. If the lead can be scratched with a fingernail it is good lead. With these guns your wound channel is the important factor for hunting. We don't tend to get caught up in minutia of hardness, and meplat surface. Now sure some shooters do and they are well knowledgeable about such things, and if you want to focus on this they are here and nice fellas who share knowledge. Just if you want to shoot Bambi and Thumper just hit 'em with a PRB. It is plenty mojo to do the job.

Heavy conicals are great rounds for tougher game like bears, elk and boar. But they punish on both ends of the gun. I can't take a day of shooting conicals long enough to develop a good shot. (the 275 grain .50 TC Hunter being the exception, still hurts a bit more than a PRB)

 

[ADK Bigfoot]

A .45 caliber round ball is fully sufficient for deer hunting, and an economical joy to shoot for practice and fun. Go with the round ball!

ADK Bigfoot

 

[david w]

I agree with the others on a .50 being lighter. If you do get a ,45, stay away from modern bullets. They are too hard to use in a front loader. Stay with pure lead bullets. Better yet, and has already been said, stick with round balls and patch.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

So these 45 cals like the .452" (45 Colt) size bullet?

45ACP is .452, 45 Colt is .454.
Round ball is smaller. .440

BTW My 45 cal shoots 180 roundball at 2033fps. Faster than the 30-30. (my load)
(way faster than a 45/70 .458)

 

[deermanok]

45ACP is .452, 45 Colt is .454.
Round ball is smaller. .440

BTW My 45 cal shoots 180 roundball at 2033fps. Faster than the 30-30. (my load)
(way faster than a 45/70 .458)

How much powder do you use to attain that velocity?

 

[RIDE-RED350R]

Thanks for the replies gentleman. I was thinking that there might be issues with cast bullets for cartridge rifles, hardness and dimension that wouldn't play well with a front stuffer.

I reload alot of smokeless for quite a few different cartridges but almost exclusively use jacketed. I haven't delved into the differently types of projectiles suitable for muzzleloaders as deep as I have for loading metallic cartridges. All of these replies have been helpful and informative. Thanks to all who offered up their thoughts and advice.

As a side note, the White Mountain Carbine is about at the top of the short list for what I would like to pick up for her.