.45 caliber RB enough for deer?

[Robby]

Having shot bears and deers myself with a 30-06 and had them run far even after falling down hard leaving bits and pieces and with a blood trail three feet wide and a mile long, I’m not surprised that a .45 caliber black powder round ball with the energy of the ejected ‘06 shell would have critters run off. My experience hunting all my life is that every critter in the woods, especially squirrels, is tenacious of life. I’ve shot the head clean off a Turkey at close range and still lost it as it flew blindly through the woods, banging off trees etc. til it was out of sight and lost and I was out of gas and hanging on the closest tree trunk like a drunk. Five years ago I called in a tom Turkey across a field like in a pro video, shot him close with a magnum load, watched him drop hard, his head hanging off, flopping around and then as I’m walking up he takes off running for the far woods, takes flight, and I hear him crash land in some thick nasty logging tops. My friend brings his bird dog and we tracked the turkey to three different spots where it landed, rested, and lit out from. Truly a wild turkey goose chase. Never found it.
Hunters who watch their animals drop dead on the spot are quite fortunate. Especially black powder hunters. Or they are the usual hunters and fishermen who never miss, who kill two deer with one bullet, and whose fish is always the biggest. I love you guys, truly

And by coincidence, the deer I shot last year went down on the spot, I used a .45 flintlock with a patched round ball.
Robby

 

[Critter Getter]

This is the only buck that I have shot with a Muzzleloader that dropped in his tracks that I can remember. Shot him at 50 yards with a prb and 60 gr of real black. Missed my lung shot and hit him in the base of the neck and dead without a kick. Not proud for pulling my shot by at least 12” but I got lucky and all ended well. Greg

 

[GANGGREEN]

I'm not calling anybody out and I'm sure that the vast majority of guys here are being honest, but I'm one of the guys who hasn't had the same success that all of you have and I'm very conscientious about shot placement and about tracking. Now admittedly, the only deer that I've ever shot at with a 45 flintlock died on the spot. As far as I can recall, all of the 8 or 10 deer I've shot with a 54 caliber flintlock have died either on the spot or very, very close. But, I've had mixed results with a 50 caliber. Most have died and have been located (probably a couple dozen of them), but certainly not all of them. I've lost at least five or six deer with a 50 caliber over the last 40 years or so and as a rule, my belief is that you should always error on the side of caution and go with larger caliber if it's intended to be a deer rifle.

 

[LME]

I think a lot of our members are not experienced hunting with ML rifles as others here are. It should be said that the .45 is for the experienced hunters among us. I honestly think we are sending the wrong message? I saw a chart Zonie had on the energy of ML rounds. It should be mandatory reading for everyone that decides to hunt with a ML rifle.

 

[BadDaditood]

6 pages and no one has stuck a ball yet?

 

[pamtnman]

The only deer I ever put down in his tracks with a muzzleloder was this buck last season in Illinois. I used a .445 roundball, 60 grains 3F, View attachment 91785 and shot him at 40 yards quartering to me. The year before, a large doe ran 50 yards and crashed with a chest hit from a .440 roundball and 70 grains 2F. Damage to internal organs was severe. I’ve shot dozens with a .54 and .62. Some of them ran a long ways. None went down any faster with the larger calibers.

Nice neck shot. For some reason deer shot in the neck, even the throat, just drop like a sack of potatoes. Makes sense if it’s a spine hit, but the throat? Maybe the shock immobilizes the neck. It is something I’ve noticed over the years. And deer shot in the vitals can easily run far. A few years ago I shot a deer through the heart with a Savage 99 in .300 Savage. Didn’t fall down, just ran wildly for 150 yards. The next day I shot another deer in the heart with the same rifle and flattened it. It fell over and slid about sixty yards downhill until it landed on an old logging road. Last year I shot one deer in the throat and she dropped, shot the other one with her through the heart and she ran 100 yards. I suspect my bad luck with the .45 round ball was the lack of blood trail, or lack of a consistent blood trail. I know most of the deer i shot with it were heart shot. With the statute of limitations now long up on this one, I can relate about a doe I heart shot with that Pedersoli .45. She was standing in the middle of the Pine Creek rail trail, and I was above our driveway. It was a measured 65 yard offhand shot that I felt proud of. She jumped three feet straight up and turned for Pine Creek, about 85 yards away. She died out in the stream and floated down to the point of an island, where she hung up on a rock and provided locals with great photos of feasting eagles for a week. Oh I’ve got more war stories with my good ol .45, but it’s the reason I went to .54 and now .62. I want the critters to be more dead than just regular dead.

 

[.36Rooster]

Is there anyone who thinks that a .440 patched RB at 1231 ft.lbs of muzzle energy isn't enough for deer size game?

Yes, there are people who think so. But think about this for a minute: I have killed several deer with a longbow, using hand fletched Cedar and Douglas fir arrows, no sight pins, turkey feathers, and fixed blade metal broadheads, sharpened by myself on a whetstone, and have never failed at a recovery. I also personally know of a person who killed a doe with a wooden arrow tipped with a stone arrowhead knapped by hand from flint. And hafted to the split shaft with dental floss (artificial sinew) and hide glue, using a bow carved by hand from a stave of Osage with a draw knife.

My bow, shooting a 500 grain arrow, at less than 150 ft per second, has less than 20ft pounds of "muzzle energy."

You have no worries with a .45 caliber muzzleloader, and you don't need to max out your powder charge either. If you limit your shots to the farthest distance that you can hit a pie plate, and don't try shooting through brush, then you will be fine.

Forget about the numbers, if you put a hole through his lungs, he will expire in less than a minute (how long could you hold your breath while running for your life); and since the hide has holes, there will be a blood trail. Follow it, and there is beyond all doubt a deer lying at the end of it.

 

[Skychief]

Some posts on this thread has my BS meter nearing redline.......

 

[nightwolf1974]

Some posts on this thread has my BS meter nearing redline.......

such as?

 

[LME]

Yes, there are people who think so. But think about this for a minute: I have killed several deer with a longbow, using hand fletched Cedar and Douglas fir arrows, no sight pins, turkey feathers, and fixed blade metal broadheads, sharpened by myself on a whetstone, and have never failed at a recovery. I also personally know of a person who killed a doe with a wooden arrow tipped with a stone arrowhead knapped by hand from flint. And hafted to the split shaft with dental floss (artificial sinew) and hide glue, using a bow carved by hand from a stave of Osage with a draw knife.

My bow, shooting a 500 grain arrow, at less than 150 ft per second, has less than 20ft pounds of "muzzle energy."

You have no worries with a .45 caliber muzzleloader, and you don't need to max out your powder charge either. If you limit your shots to the farthest distance that you can hit a pie plate, and don't try shooting through brush, then you will be fine.

Forget about the numbers, if you put a hole through his lungs, he will expire in less than a minute (how long could you hold your breath while running for your life); and since the hide has holes, there will be a blood trail. Follow it, and there is beyond all doubt a deer lying at the end of it.

Your statement,""If you put a hole through his lungs he will expire"" is correct! The problem with using it across the board is the little word,""IF"" gets in the way . It is a little word with a huge meaning.I can't tell you how many ,""IF,s"" I have heard people use?

 

[LME]

I'm not calling anybody out and I'm sure that the vast majority of guys here are being honest, but I'm one of the guys who hasn't had the same success that all of you have and I'm very conscientious about shot placement and about tracking. Now admittedly, the only deer that I've ever shot at with a 45 flintlock died on the spot. As far as I can recall, all of the 8 or 10 deer I've shot with a 54 caliber flintlock have died either on the spot or very, very close. But, I've had mixed results with a 50 caliber. Most have died and have been located (probably a couple dozen of them), but certainly not all of them. I've lost at least five or six deer with a 50 caliber over the last 40 years or so and as a rule, my belief is that you should always error on the side of caution and go with larger caliber if it's intended to be a deer rifle.

Your post read like my hunting history . It also sounded like the hunters that frequented the store I use to work for. It is just human nature to brag a little on ones successes and leave out ones failures.

 

[.36Rooster]

Your statement,""If you put a hole through his lungs he will expire"" is correct! The problem with using it across the board is the little word,""IF"" gets in the way . It is a little word with a huge meaning.I can't tell you how many ,""IF,s"" I have heard people use?

Well, I've got an even better "IF" to share:
IF you can't reliably hit a pie plate, you shouldn't be hunting deer with anything... period. Stick with paper.

 

[Skychief]

such as?

81,98,106.

 

[nightwolf1974]

81,98,106.

Agreed!

 

[LME]

Well, I've got an even better "IF" to share:
IF you can't reliably hit a pie plate, you shouldn't be hunting deer with anything... period. Stick with paper.

Don't get your panties in a wad! I agree with you!

 

[nightwolf1974]

Well, I've got an even better "IF" to share:
IF you can't reliably hit a pie plate, you shouldn't be hunting deer with anything... period. Stick with paper.

At what range? With a certain scoped 1/2" diameter bore unmentionable I have, off the bench, I can hit a pie plate size target all day out to 800 yds*...1200 yds* in really good conditions. With my .45cal. T/C Hawken, off the bench & factory sights, 100 yds. reliably ...offhand maybe 8/10. I'm not a sniper, but that's still pretty good. BTW, after 100 yds., with a BP gun, I won't shoot at a deer.

*And yes, I have shot at those distances before...you need really good glass for it.

 

[pamtnman]

Ok skychef please explain your skepticism. One of the reasons I run a small business is it gives me time to hunt, fish, and trap as much as I want. Like a lot of passionate hunters, I hunt in multiple states and occasionally abroad. I’ve had a great hunting career. If you don’t have experience calling turkeys, then you would not recognize how easily they are lost even after being hit in the head. And I haven’t even told the Alaska salmon story. Field & Stream did one of their vignettes on that in October 2006. But I’m sure you’d say that too is bs…

 

[mooman76]

Personally I don't like neck shots. I've Not knocking anyone that do it personally but I've known too many people that never recovered their animal. It's a smaller zone hitting the throat than the heart/lung area and there is allot of good meat there that can get waisted. I shot my first deer with an .06 and it literally shredded the heart. It did not drop dead but ran up hill about 50 feet and dropped. I had heard of that happening but never believed it until it happened to me. I've never dropped one immediately but generally they didn't do far.

 

[rpatmuck]

I am 77 and have hunted deer here in Texas since I was 14. I made mistakes over the years and lost some deer. I just never made the same mistake twice. I hunted about 12 years with muzzle loading rifles using round balls. I have hunted with .45, .50, and .54. I lost one buck due to a bad shot with my .50 cal.Thompson Center. The bad shot was totally my fault due to not having a good rest to fire from. I always shot for a lung shot because I would get a pass through and the blood trail was easy to follow. I would usually find my deer 40 to 50 yards away. I try to follow the saying "know your limitations" and the day I lost that deer I should should have had a good rest or passed up the shot.

 

[Skychief]

Ok skychef please explain your skepticism. One of the reasons I run a small business is it gives me time to hunt, fish, and trap as much as I want. Like a lot of passionate hunters, I hunt in multiple states and occasionally abroad. I’ve had a great hunting career. If you don’t have experience calling turkeys, then you would not recognize how easily they are lost even after being hit in the head. And I haven’t even told the Alaska salmon story. Field & Stream did one of their vignettes on that in October 2006. But I’m sure you’d say that too is bs…

I'm adding post 117 to the list.

Turkeys easily lost after being hit in the head? Not my experience. Not sure how one determines a lost bird was hit in the head to begin with.

Post 81 describes only two of dozens of whitetails hit through the vitals at close range recovered.

Post 98 is rich, comparing the energy of a 45 prb to that of a 30/06 casing clearing an action. Upping the ante, we were able to read about a turkey which had his head severed completely from its body fly away through the woods, never to be recovered. As if that weren't enough for one post, we were treated to the account of calling a tom into close range, like a pro, and shot with a magnum load to the point of its head "hanging off". Yet, this supernatural bird was unrecoverable after flying off to " the far woods". Two men and a dog couldn't find the bird with its hanging off head after an exhausting search.

Within post 106, we read that the author knows that most of the unrecovered deer shot with a 45 prb were heartshot. Like the unrecovered face-shot turkeys, how does one know for certain where an unrecovered animal has been shot (if at all)?

I might go on as there is certainly more which might be added, but I'm ready to get on with my day.

I only post the above as I was asked what has pushed the needle of the aforementioned BS meter into the red.

Tall tales are fine amongst friends around a campfire, but, might lead some with less experience here astray. Perhaps these aren't tales at all. Its possible that 90%+ of the author's disastrous results prove that he is the exception to the rule more often than not. Still, my meter says otherwise.

Carry on, Skychief.