Agreed, you don't have to be able to lay ball on top of ball to take game, just put one in the right spot..it used to be fun though when the eyes were sharper to see how tight you could get a gun to group, I had an old CVA Kentuck, that at 30 yds took the color out of the center of all four aces in a deck of cards in four consecutive shots...I can't even see the color in the center of a card now at that distance.(VBG)
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.45 hunting loads?
- Thread starter Moloch
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Idaho Ron
58 Cal.
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When I work up my loads I want sub 2" 100 yard groups for any of my ML's. I don't think a guy needs that kind of accuracy for most shots. What those sub 2" or even sub 1" 100 yard groups do is boost my confidence in the rifle and load. I won't shoot any rifle at big game that I don't have confidence in, centerfire or ML. Ron
I just ran the numbers and I am pretty puzzled now. 
I am a metric guy and it took me a few minutes to figure out the numbers and came to the conclusion that a .018 or 0.020 patch with a .440 bullet is so tight that it must be rammed down the bore with
a jackhammer.
Maybe I hadnt enough sleep, but:
.440 +.018 = .458? TIGHT! .020 Even tighter!
On the metric point of view:
Bore: .450 = 11.43 millimeters
- Bullet: .440 = 11.17 millimeters
____________________________________
Space: bore - bullet: 0.26 millimetres.
Available space: 0.26 millimeters
Patch: . .018 = 0.45 millimeters
= Patch almost two times bigger than available space between barrel and ball.
I know that patching a bit over the actual bore is necessary for good accuracy, but more than 150% of the available space sounds too tight for me.
I know that you shoot loads that thight and it works, so it must be an error on my side, but I cannot figure it out.
I am a metric guy and it took me a few minutes to figure out the numbers and came to the conclusion that a .018 or 0.020 patch with a .440 bullet is so tight that it must be rammed down the bore with
a jackhammer.
Maybe I hadnt enough sleep, but:
.440 +.018 = .458? TIGHT! .020 Even tighter!
On the metric point of view:
Bore: .450 = 11.43 millimeters
- Bullet: .440 = 11.17 millimeters
____________________________________
Space: bore - bullet: 0.26 millimetres.
Available space: 0.26 millimeters
Patch: . .018 = 0.45 millimeters
= Patch almost two times bigger than available space between barrel and ball.
I know that patching a bit over the actual bore is necessary for good accuracy, but more than 150% of the available space sounds too tight for me.
I know that you shoot loads that thight and it works, so it must be an error on my side, but I cannot figure it out.
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I haven't checked you math, but as a general rule of thumb my rifles all shoot better if there's a little compression when I first seat the ball in the bore. In these examples, that patching material will compress quite a bit, so we're not talking about a loose and easy fit. Mine shoot best if it takes a quick swat of my open hand on the ball of my short starter to get the ball down below muzzle level. Once that is accomlished they go ahead and seat all the way down the bore using my ramrod with a lot less force than was required to start it.
The effort for seating it the rest of the way down the bore can increase with some lubes, and in some bores with powder fouling. That may indicate the need to change lubes, to swab between shots, or even to try a faster powder.
Bores also vary from one rifle to the next. We're only talking less than .001 differences, but even off the same assembly line you can see a range as reamers wear and bores get smaller.
Heck, my a 58 caliber I just picked up turns out to be "choke bored" and tighter at the muzzle. It takes a sharper than usual rap to start the ball, but as it goes down the bore it rams easier and easier, the deeper it goes.
The effort for seating it the rest of the way down the bore can increase with some lubes, and in some bores with powder fouling. That may indicate the need to change lubes, to swab between shots, or even to try a faster powder.
Bores also vary from one rifle to the next. We're only talking less than .001 differences, but even off the same assembly line you can see a range as reamers wear and bores get smaller.
Heck, my a 58 caliber I just picked up turns out to be "choke bored" and tighter at the muzzle. It takes a sharper than usual rap to start the ball, but as it goes down the bore it rams easier and easier, the deeper it goes.
paulvallandigham
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Moloch: YOu fail to take into account that a lubricated patch( Oil or grease), or damp( spit, or water) will compress to about 1/2 its dry thickness.
When we give the thickness dimensions of the patching materials, we are talking about what they measure DRY. In fact, since you have to measure the stuff at the store, this even includes the " sizing " ( a starch like substance added to the cloth during manufacture to help hold the weaves tight, and to make the cloth flow smoothly through the high speed presses) in the cloth. Wash new patch material to remove the sizing before using it for patches for your rifle. The thickness may seem thicker, with the sizing removed, but the cloth will absorb both water, and Lubes better without the sizing in the cloth.
DO clean your rifle between shots. Leaving crud in the barrel just changes the dimension of the gun and load for the next shots, causing the balls to impact in different locations( widening your groups).
When we give the thickness dimensions of the patching materials, we are talking about what they measure DRY. In fact, since you have to measure the stuff at the store, this even includes the " sizing " ( a starch like substance added to the cloth during manufacture to help hold the weaves tight, and to make the cloth flow smoothly through the high speed presses) in the cloth. Wash new patch material to remove the sizing before using it for patches for your rifle. The thickness may seem thicker, with the sizing removed, but the cloth will absorb both water, and Lubes better without the sizing in the cloth.
DO clean your rifle between shots. Leaving crud in the barrel just changes the dimension of the gun and load for the next shots, causing the balls to impact in different locations( widening your groups).
"When I work up my loads I want sub 2" 100 yard groups for any of my ML's"
Not a bad goal, that ship has sailed for me with primitive open iron sights, so I just lob balls from smoothbores now and keep the shots at 50yds or less, usually a 3" group or less is doable.
Not a bad goal, that ship has sailed for me with primitive open iron sights, so I just lob balls from smoothbores now and keep the shots at 50yds or less, usually a 3" group or less is doable.
longcruise
70 Cal.
Like the others have said, the cloth compresses much tighter than it's "measured" size. Also, three guys can all measure the same material with their own choice of measuring device and come up with different sizes!
I'll be the broken record and repeat myself. I'm sure you have an undersize bore! I have an F.I.E kentucky pistol that is stamed .45 caliber. A .433 ball loads pretty tight and a .431 is much easier to load. That pistol is probably a .44 caliber although I've not measure it.
You can measure the bore size like this. Get an oversize ball, say a .50 caliber and oil it up pretty good and wipe some oil in the bore. Put a brass rod that is just under bore size and about eight inches long down the bore and then hammer the oversize ball down the bore about four inches. Then drive the ball back out using the weight of the brass rod as an internal hammer to drive it out. Once driven out you should be able to measure it for the true caliber of the gun.
Sorry for not converting to metrics but I'm not fully "metricised" :haha:
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