.45 investarms flintlock not igniting charge after 7 +shots

[hanshi]

Admittedly, I've never had a problem with a gun having a "patent" breech that could be positively traced back to that breech. But as I've mentioned many times before those weird breeching systems are a very bad solution to a nonexistent problem, and I've owned a few in my lifetime. I do have a rifle with one of those but it is reliable and never had a problem with it. Personally I detest those things.

And I do not swab the bore until it's time to head home. I also blow down the bore quite often.

 

[Grenadier1758]

A blast from a CO2 discharger would also clear out the flash channel and the chambered breech.

 

[BP Addict]

I haven’t had any experience with the 45. I do have a Lyman (Investarm) 50-caliber Deer Stalker Flintlock rifle with a 24” barrel. I had two guns to test that day, so I only put a few shots through it. The other gun was a CVA Flintlock Hawken in the same caliber and breech setup. My buddy has a CVA Frontier FL rifle. One thing we’ve noticed is Patent Breeches seem to work better on Caplocks than Flintlocks. When I pulled the Touch Hole Liner out, there is a small area off to the right that the “Flash” must travel through into the antechamber. I was having numerous problems. First off, the frizzen wouldn’t open all the way until I put the flint in bevel down. Even after polishing the screw, frizzen bottom, and top of the spring. Then there were failures to fire. It also likes the powder banked against the barrel. When I took it home to clean it, I drilled a 1/8th” cone into the outside face of the liner and drilled the inside to 1/8” also, leaving the hole itself at a little over 1/16”. I have not had a chance to take it back out to the range for testing. I’m very confident that ignition will be greatly improved. All my other Flintlocks have the regular breech plugs, so ignition is considerably better!

I clean every 5-shots (the usual for Paper Target Matches before pulling and posting) and either put something in the touch hole to keep it clear (that Hawken didn’t like this either!) or touch off a pan of primer before reloading to keep the channel clear.

As others have said, if it’s sparking and not firing, there is something amiss in the breech. If it was the Touch Hole Liner, it would do it all the time and not after so many shots.

Good Luck!

Walt

 

[kyron4]

I haven’t had any experience with the 45. I do have a Lyman (Investarm) 50-caliber Deer Stalker Flintlock rifle with a 24” barrel. I had two guns to test that day, so I only put a few shots through it. The other gun was a CVA Flintlock Hawken in the same caliber and breech setup. My buddy has a CVA Frontier FL rifle. One thing we’ve noticed is Patent Breeches seem to work better on Caplocks than Flintlocks. When I pulled the Touch Hole Liner out, there is a small area off to the right that the “Flash” must travel through into the antechamber. I was having numerous problems. First off, the frizzen wouldn’t open all the way until I put the flint in bevel down. Even after polishing the screw, frizzen bottom, and top of the spring. Then there were failures to fire. It also likes the powder banked against the barrel. When I took it home to clean it, I drilled a 1/8th” cone into the outside face of the liner and drilled the inside to 1/8” also, leaving the hole itself at a little over 1/16”. I have not had a chance to take it back out to the range for testing. I’m very confident that ignition will be greatly improved. All my other Flintlocks have the regular breech plugs, so ignition is considerably better!

I clean every 5-shots (the usual for Paper Target Matches before pulling and posting) and either put something in the touch hole to keep it clear (that Hawken didn’t like this either!) or touch off a pan of primer before reloading to keep the channel clear.

As others have said, if it’s sparking and not firing, there is something amiss in the breech. If it was the Touch Hole Liner, it would do it all the time and not after so many shots.

Good Luck!

Walt

I have noticed the same thing. I think the reason is the hot flash from the cap can "jump" past the empty space if the powder doesn't get past the small hole in the breach.

 

[brotherlloyd]

Admittedly, I've never had a problem with a gun having a "patent" breech that could be positively traced back to that breech. But as I've mentioned many times before those weird breeching systems are a very bad solution to a nonexistent problem, and I've owned a few in my lifetime. I do have a rifle with one of those but it is reliable and never had a problem with it. Personally I detest those things.

And I do not swab the bore until it's time to head home. I also blow down the bore quite often.

Yes follow this advice

 

[Nor'Easter]

and definitely find a brush that goes all the way in the patent breech when cleaning...that is most important. View attachment 150914

Which of these most closely matches the design of the InvestArms breech.

 

[Nor'Easter]

?

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

Which of these most closely matches the design of the InvestArms breech.

Top left. Chambered breech.

 

[Nor'Easter]

Top left. Chambered breech.

Thanks for that. I am surprised more people don't remove the plug and enlarge the cavity, up to bore diameter if possible.

 

[duca]

Ya know, I would think it would be easier to manufacture a muzzleloader with OUT
That Damned "patent" breech… I Hate them! Ya, can’t beat a straight bore with a hole on the side. So much easier to shoot and clean

 

[cal.43]

And I do not swab the bore until it's time to head home. I also blow down the bore quite often.

as I said that´s the way to go,
You need a good flashhole and if using a patched roundball there is no need for swabing between the shot.
More than 25 round without swabin is no problem.

 

[burlesontom]

Ya know, I would think it would be easier to manufacture a muzzleloader with OUT
That Damned "patent" breech… I Hate them! Ya, can’t beat a straight bore with a hole on the side. So much easier to shoot and clean

I have read this thread a couple of times because I am considering buying a FL rifle. The drawing in post #7 shows the traditional breech and I think it would be the best design for a flintlock. I have been looking at Pedersoli flinters and wanted to know if anyone knows what breech set up they use on their guns? I like the "Kentucky" rifle with the fixed sights and single trigger.

I had a percussion Blue Ridge many years ago bought at Cabelas. It was a good shooting gun but I never warmed up to the skinny buttstock it had. Also does Pedersoli make a decent lock with a good sparking frizzen?

 

[duca]

I have read this thread a couple of times because I am considering buying a FL rifle. The drawing in post #7 shows the traditional breech and I think it would be the best design for a flintlock.

You are correct! The traditional breach is the way to go. All Manufactured commercial rifles have chambered or patented breach set ups

 

[Grenadier1758]

I have read this thread a couple of times because I am considering buying a FL rifle. The drawing in post #7 shows the traditional breech and I think it would be the best design for a flintlock. I have been looking at Pedersoli flinters and wanted to know if anyone knows what breech set up they use on their guns? I like the "Kentucky" rifle with the fixed sights and single trigger.

I had a percussion Blue Ridge many years ago bought at Cabelas. It was a good shooting gun but I never warmed up to the skinny buttstock it had. Also does Pedersoli make a decent lock with a good sparking frizzen?

Pedersoli flint lock rifles have the chambered breeches. Most of the time the Pedersoli locks are decent and spark well.

Some of the Pedersoli offerings, that are only offered in flint lock, such as the Bess or Charlesville have traditional breeches.

 

[burlesontom]

Pedersoli flint lock rifles have the chambered breeches. Most of the time the Pedersoli locks are decent and spark well.

Some of the Pedersoli offerings, that are only offered in flint lock, such as the Bess or Charlesville have traditional breeches.

Thanks for the information. Are there any factory built flinters that use traditional breeches? All my cap locks have the chambered breech. To keep those clean I carry a 22 bore brush that will screw into the 8/32 threaded end of my ramrod and wrap a damp patch around it and clean it that way in the field.

With a cap lock its normally never a problem since the flame from the cap is forced into the chamber and ignition is usually a for sure thing. I can see a real advantage to having a traditional breeck for a flint lock.

I seem to remember just reading that in competitions they will not let you shoot a conical from a gun with a traditional breech. Is that true?