.45 Kentucky Rifle Vs. Steel Plate

[Darkhorse]

Good examples Smo. Do you consider that disc to be tempered or heat treated?

In Peter Alexander's book "The Gunsmith of Grenville County" on page 365 he makes this statement which is not word for word but close enough to get my point across;
"My friend was plinking with a .45 caliber flintlock, he was shooting at tempered ploughshare blades at least 1/8" thick. Range 60 yards. Load 60 grains of 3fg. The balls went completely through the steel blades."

I had my doubts as to the real facts of this statement. But the holes in Smo's disc look pretty convincing. In my mind the soft lead balls would just splatter.

 

[smo]

Darkhorse, I was totally surprised when I shot thru the disc blade.

I’m not sure but I would think a disc would be hardened , tempered or something.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Darkhorse, I was totally surprised when I shot thru the disc blade.

I’m not sure but I would think a disc would be hardened , tempered or something.

Surprises me also. But, what is clear is that we underestimate the potential destructiveness of our obsolete style firearms.

 

[EC121]

The hardened metal might have been brittle. I've seen 3/8" mild steel round silhouettes take a lot of shots without a hole. Just dimples at 50yds. Maybe right at the muzzle they would puncture, but I don't want to try it.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Disc blades are very brittle. I have broken them with a muzzleloader. They are easily cracked and broken. This steel plate in the video on the other hand is very suspicious to me. Something not quite right. Of course under the right circumstances it can be a handy way of eliminating your bratty child with splatter

 

[Rich]

I bet what is not seen on the video is the guy saying, "Dude, hold my warm British beer and watch this."

Two things can happen when any projectile hits a steel plate. There can be a cocoidal fracture, like a BB gun makes when glass is shot and if the second thing doesn't happen there would be a hole for the projectile to pass through. The second and definitely to happen is that when the projectile hits it's genetic energy is converted to heat. That's why you experience splatter when a lead ball strikes, or see melted lead soldered to a plate target. You can prove this to yourself. Put a ball on a hard surface and smack it as hard as you can with a hammer. Then, immediately pick up the smashed ball. You will burn your fingers.

Between the fracture and heat some sort of projectile can shoot a hole through a plate. However, I doubt the Darwin Award candidate in the video actually did what is claimed without rigging the test.

Exactly how a lot of anti-tank and anti armor rounds work.

 

[hangfast]

Good AR500 plate is not that expensive and is a lot more fun to shoot when hung properly, not to mention a lot safer. Hanging from a single mounting point allows the steel to ring when hit. I'm using a system by Hang Fast Targets that uses a hanger designed for a T Post. The plates can hang from a short chain section which allows the plate to swing when hit. What I like is I can put the T Post anywhere I can pound it and get to shooting within minutes.

 

[brawny man]

Like the angle on your target system hangfast. Less likely for a ball to bounce back at the shooter the way you have it set up.

 

[reyna2017]

My brother was shooting girders at an old coal mine with armor piercing AK rounds. It ricocheted back hit his friend's AK in the butt and penetrated. It had a case hardened steel pellet in the FMJ round. With soft lead, the bullet flattens, sometimes dropping to the ground. I have been hit by ricochets (off an old washing Machine) from a 36 navy with antimony wheel weight balls. Just scared me and stung. 58 enfield penetrates those 3/16ths steel signs they put on rail roads. So do 410 slugs. Just crazy things I did as a teen. My point is dont purposely shoot metal up close, even metal targets get back.

 

[Eutycus]

Just out of curiosity what would be a good minimum distance from the target. I've been shooting a gong for over a year. Maybe I've just been lucky?

 

[TFoley]

Guns are not outlawed in the UK. That aside I do whiff cows muck.
(Not even bothered to watch the video!).

Correct, that is exactly why I have nineteen of 'em, and I live in the UK. These idiots are not doing the REAL shooters of UK any favours. Just think, not only are these cretins authorised to acquire and possess a working firearm, but also a BP license. Seeing idiocy like this in action I can see why the 'wobblies' want to take our guns away.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Eutycus, there was a whole long discuss on this forum about that issue a few months back.

If the target is angled down like the one shown above, then you are pretty safe at 20 to 30 yards. Especially if shooting round ball or soft lead bullets.

 

[hangfast]

Just out of curiosity what would be a good minimum distance from the target. I've been shooting a gong for over a year. Maybe I've just been lucky?

It all depends on the steel target. If the steel has pock marks or craters the safe distance would be about 200+ yards. Steel targets MUST be smooth in order for the splatter to be directed in a safe direction which is about 20 degrees to the POI. That is the reason to always use AR500. Shooting at soft steel or junk is a recipe for disaster. Also the impact velocity of the projectile (LEAD NOT STEEL) must be over 750 fps. So if you are shooting at hard and smooth steel with a lead projectile going over 750 fps the minimum safe distance is 10 yards according to USPSA (United States Practical Shooters Association).

 

[Jeff Brown]

I saw a picture of a windshield in the tourist's parking lot blown out by what was thought to be a ricochet at a shoot. They were firing at gongs, frying pans, that kind of thing, plus paper targets. Technically unlikely to happen...distance of maybe 100-200 yards from any of the shooting areas. Could have been off a steel part of the frame holding the target or even a misfire into the air that came down rather than a gong ricochet, but you can never be too safe.

 

[hangfast]

I saw a picture of a windshield in the tourist's parking lot blown out by what was thought to be a ricochet at a shoot. They were firing at gongs, frying pans, that kind of thing, plus paper targets. Technically unlikely to happen...distance of maybe 100-200 yards from any of the shooting areas. Could have been off a steel part of the frame holding the target or even a misfire into the air that came down rather than a gong ricochet, but you can never be too safe.

There are so many videos of people shooting trash and junk that it's no wonder the average shooter thinks it is OK. The truth is that the only safe hard object to shoot at is SMOOTH, HARD STEEL. It's not that expensive to use proper steel targets so I'm not sure what the problem is.
That said, a lot of reactive targets such as the "TEXAS STAR" do send frags up range because of their design. Also, welding a target plate to a "foot" to place on a pedestal is very dangerous because the "foot" can re direct splatter back to the shooter. My wife caught a frag in her neck right next to her jugular vein from a target like that.
Common sense is becoming so uncommon that Marvel Comics has just listed "common sense" as the new super power.

 

[Bent Sight]

I shot at metal plates that were used as shock plates in body armor. I picked them up at a local gun show. I removed the Kevlar from the outside before shooting the plates. I don't know the hardness of the metal. Hornady .45 caliber round balls pushed by 50 grains of Pyrodex RS punched right through the plates at 50 yards. The plates did not move much when they were hit, the round balls just punched right through.

I was really shocked when I saw what a $100 muzzle loader with lead round balls could do to metal shock plates.

 

[hangfast]

I picked them up at a local gun show.
I was really shocked when I saw what a $100 muzzle loader with lead round balls could do to metal shock plates.

There is your answer .... "Gun Show"

I will be running a test on:
Ballistic plate vs Hardox 500 vs AR500 in the next few weeks and making a video. I'll post the results

 

[Rifleman1776]

FWIW, in the 70's when I was manufacturing and selling metallic silhouette targets mine were made of 1/2" thick T1A steel welded to mild steel bases. My surviving samples have been shot only with muzzle loaders and soft lead round balls. They exhibit several shallow pock marks and one large deep one. I suspect I attempted a very heavy charge from shot range to get that. The bases were mild steel and exhibit numerous deep pocks from hits.

 

[hanshi]

The only steel plates I ever shot at were on trail walks. One thing I've noticed is that a load that penetrates a steel plate usually involves a cratering at the poi.

 

[Bent Sight]

I bought an AR-500 steel target at Bass Pro Shop. I painted it, rigged to a frame with chains and took it to the range. The same .45 caliber rifle with Hornady round balls and 50g of Pyrodex RS left noticeable marks on the plate. The marks are deep enough that paint won't fill them in.