45 TC Hawken

[SDSmlf]

Plenty of suggestions to filter through. Me, I would start with the ball and patch combination that showed the most potential and try a 20 grain powder load. From there, step up in small increments, say 5 grains and find an accuracy load. No matter the charge, you then have a baseline accuracy load for lack of a better term. The important thing, is confidence that your gun will shoot. Then work up from there for a hunting load. May or may not work. But what you have tried hasn’t worked, so why repeat it.

 

[Crow-Feather]

I don’t see any rubs. The only thing thing I noticed is it looks like some wood is missing behind the lock plate. I did fix a small crack (when I got the rifle in the spring) under the tang by filling it with runny super glue and clamping it. The breach to tang fit looks flush and true. The tang is just under the surface of the wood - isn’t that where it’s supposed to be?

when the barrel wedge is put in (right to left if looking down the barrel, right?) it puts some pressure on the barrel and “pulls” it down into the barrel channel slightly. There is no play or up/down flex of the barrel in the channel - it is under tension. The wedge needs some pressure to pop it out but not a hammer or anything - it is not loose.

The hammer does not seem to be hitting anything in its travel.

See attached pictures- let me know if ya’ll see something that doesn’t look right

It does appear that the bottom of the snail is pressing on the top of the lock. The tang should be sitting solid on it's wood base and be solid to the wood behind where the tang and barrel join. The barrel should not be pulled down into the stock under tension. It should sit in the stock without stress. That could be causing your problem.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I would try .445 balls, that said I have a .50 TC Hawken kit gun that I can load a .490 ball with a .015 patch but couldn't drive a .495 down the barrel with a sledge hammer. I have had a number of .50s and never had one that I couldn't shoot .490s and .495s out of.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@Eric Krewson, I wouldn't challenge someone with a big enough hammer to be incapable of driving an oversized ball and patch down the barrel. Its been done for centuries. I do question the why of such an unnecessary exercise. You have the likelihood of tearing the patch and upsetting the forward surface of the ball with little advantage of improving accuracy on target. Using the 0.440 ball with a slightly thicker patch of 0.018" (cotton drill cloth) might be the next step to improve accoracy.

 

[Bad Karma]

All good questions and no I don’t take anything on the internet personally!

I’ve been shoot traditional muzzleloader for about 5 years. Fairly seriously for deer hunting. I have a 50 cal New Englander that shots great with PRB and maxi balls. I have a Lyman GPH that shoots conicals very well. I thought this 45 Hawken would dial in just like my other 1:48 TC but it hasn’t happened yet.
When I got it, it was not a good look. It had been assembled poorly and was missing parts. I took it all apart, reblued the barrel and ordered all the missing stuff. I cleaned the bore out with 4O steel wool wrapped around a bronze brush and coated with JB bore paste and kroil. It looked good, no pits.

I bought new Speer 440 round balls, ox yoke pre lubed patches both in 0.010 and 0.015 as well as the pillow ticking 0.018.

I started off with 70 grains 3f Goex, then went to 80, 90 and back down to 60. All shooting 3 shot groups. Swabbed with either spit or bore cleaner between shots. I think the 70 grains did the best, I had 2 shots within 2” of each other, but then it would throw a flyer 12” or more high. Same loading process.

I tried maxi balls that I pan lubed with SPG and they were all over the target at 50 yards. Same powder charges, and tried 2f as well for lower pressure. Used a wool wad under the maxiball.

I took the rifle all apart tonight after cleaning it (hot soapy water with ramrod ‘pump’). I took some pictures of the bore and crown - I don’t see anything wrong there - do you? The sights were not loose , though the front sight bead is canted. I will correct that.

I’m going to touch up some of the blueing around the bolster and try some different sights - I have some Williams fiber optics on order. I’ll try it all again in a couple of weeks. I ordered some mink oil and un-lubed pillow ticking to try that as well as some 445 round balls, so maybe it will like one of those combinations

Maybe I have unrealistic expectations, but my other TC’s shoot so well that I was hoping for more.

I will figure this rifle out! Lol.

Nic looking wood! And yes, although they do tend to follow general rules, every rifle is indeed a law unto itself… stick with it and you’ll likely find its likes. if not, you’ll surely learn something in the process!

 

[brushblind]

Doesn't look bad! Your barrel story reminds me of a .45 TC Patriot pistol I had a few years ago. I picked it up used fairly cheap. The only problem I could see was a small amount of pitting just in front of the breech, less than an inch in length and not severe at all but that gun would never shoot right, no repeatable accuracy at all!

 

[Idaho Ron]

I have a 45 TC hawken kit gun that I got from a buddy and it will not shoot a group to save my life! He says it was from the early 70’s ( serial # K18853). Is this an early gun? I can’t see anything wrong with the rifling.

I’ve tried PRB with 2F and 3f, numerous charge sizes and patch thickness, as well as maxi balls. It has no consistency whatsoever. I’m swabbing between all shots.

I’m thinking of getting ahold of Mr. Hoyt to see about boring it out and lining to put a fast twist in it for conicals for deer hunting. I want to keep it as a 45 caliber.

Will a 1-32” twist work well with 45’s? I have a Lyman Great Plains Hunter 50 with that twist and it works well with conicals.

I have a stock pile of the TC 45 cal maxiballs as well as the No Excuses 385 grain .451 conicals, so those are the bullets I’ll be setting the barrel up for.

Has anyone done a 45 caliber bore/liner in a TC for conicals and had success?

Thanks

I have very good luck with paper patched conicals in my 45. But my barrel is a Green Mountain barrel not TC. If you are going to send it in to be relined tell him you want it for conicals. It should have shallow grooves and the twist should be no slower than 1-30. if it were me I would be between 1-20 and 1-30. My 45's are 1-30 and I am shooting 400 gr bullets in them. They are hardened to about 9 BHN.
These are a Accurate mould and drop out at .443 I wrap them with two wraps of tracing paper and size to .446 they weigh 401 grains.

This next one is a RCBS 11mm rifle bullet. It comes out at .446 and I wrap it with 9# onion skin and size to .446 it weighs 408 grains.

The 11mm rifle bullet has killed a truck load of deer and antelope.

 

[Hunter1457]

Doesn't look bad! Your barrel story reminds me of a .45 TC Patriot pistol I had a few years ago. I picked it up used fairly cheap. The only problem I could see was a small amount of pitting just in front of the breech, less than an inch in length and not severe at all but that gun would never shoot right, no repeatable accuracy at all!

I’m going to JB borepaste the bore again and make sure everything is nice and smooth. I have no idea how many times it’s been shot in its life, my guess is less than 100. There were 25 or so round balls left in a very old Speer box (out of 100), most of a box of Buffalo Ball-ets, and half a can of pyrodex RS that came with the rifle. The pyrodex can was from the late 80’s or early 90’s as best I can guess, so I don’t think it got a lot of use to break in the barrel.

I dropped my bore light down the barrel again and don’t see any issues. I stuck a green lighted arrow knock insert into the flash channel to try and put some more light down into the breach area (it kinda worked…) and don’t see and rust or pits. The arrow knock works pretty good as a bore light too, though it kinda got stuck in the oil I had in the barrel - took a few shakes to get it out!

 

[BadDaditood]

I would try .445 balls, that said I have a .50 TC Hawken kit gun that I can load a .490 ball with a .015 patch but couldn't drive a .495 down the barrel with a sledge hammer. I have had a number of .50s and never had one that I couldn't shoot .490s and .495s out of.

I have a .50 Hawken just like yours Eric!
I’m taking it to the range tomorrow with some .495” balls and a double jack ;-)

 

[Ohio Rusty]

I have a .50 rifle and a .490 won't go down the bore. I have settled on a .475 round ball (I have the mould) and a .15 thou's patch. That combo is plenty tight..
Ohio Rusty ><>

 

[roundballman]

I have a 50 T/C Hawken built from a kit in the 1970's. Shoots extremely well with 490 ball and 015 patch. Accurate load is 80 yrs GOEX 2f.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have a .50 rifle and a .490 won't go down the bore. I have settled on a .475 round ball (I have the mould) and a .15 thou's patch. That combo is plenty tight..
Ohio Rusty ><>

The stories of who made TC barrels, and when, has become confused in the fog of times. But, your experience proves that ml rifles, even factory made ones, are individuals that need to be dialed in to perform their best.

 

[sawyer04]

I have a TC 45 cal that does the same thing.

I am in wonder now, I had one of the very early TC 45's that would not perform the way I thought it should. After the home brews and polishing I had a notebook filled with loads and outcomes of powder charges and lead weight, patch material and thickness. The fact that other weapons of that caliber were available, I traded it for a TC big 50 after informing the gentleman what the performance and presenting the range book with the rifle, we still made the trade. Three of these have sold in my area in the last two years and I saw them bring premium money.
I don't question experiences of others, but my experience was lousy. I had old crusty woodsman and highly respected smith's look over the 45 TC. None of us could get what we thought was satisfactory, better, but not great. I always wondered if the length and twist of the barrel was the culprit. I will admit I molded a 45 caliber minnie ball and it did improve, but not great.

 

[COTNTOP]

The guys I shoot with swear it is the twist in the TC Hawken. They all bought GM drop-in slow twist and problem solved, probably my next step. I have a GM in 45cal that I bought several yrs ago, my mentor had a stroke so I do not trust my limited experience in installing barrel in my TC. Gonna have to find me someone to do it.

 

[Bad Karma]

The guys I shoot with swear it is the twist in the TC Hawken. They all bought GM drop-in slow twist and problem solved, probably my next step. I have a GM in 45cal that I bought several yrs ago, my mentor had a stroke so I do not trust my limited experience in installing barrel in my TC. Gonna have to find me someone to do it.

I went the other direction for the most part. 1 in 16 to 1 in 28” work well for me. My original .45 shoots round ball passingly well. Maxi ball or Accurate Molds 45-340I shoot very well too.

Have you tried removing your barrel and just dropping the GM into it’s place? I have a couple of the GM’s and they really did just drop in and fit.

 

[Critter Getter]

I have two .45 TC Hawkens. They both shoot very well with prb with factory barrels. In fact, one of those rifles may very well be my most accurate ( or at least tied for most accurate ) of all my front stuffers. I get satisfactory accuracy with my Maxi Balls and Maxi Hunters. Always surprises me when I hear of one not shooting well. In fact, only TC that I have owned that was terrible had the Quick Loading feature that TC tried for awhile. Mine shoot prb with 60 grains of powder and I up the charge to 80 grains with the conicals. Hope you get yours figured out. Greg

 

[COTNTOP]

The GM I bought is a blank not a drop-in. Got a breechplug with it but with my little knowledge that is above my paygrade. Quickdraw had a stroke and is disabled now, that is where I was getting my experience. Gonna look into that Accurate mold. THANKS

 

[boker]

I found a T/C 45cal Hawken local that I may pick up tomorrow.guys asking $200

 

[Bad Karma]

The GM I bought is a blank not a drop-in. Got a breechplug with it but with my little knowledge that is above my paygrade. Quickdraw had a stroke and is disabled now, that is where I was getting my experience. Gonna look into that Accurate mold. THANKS

Which state do you call home? Someone on the board knows someone who can help you. Heck, quite a few could do this for you!

 

[COTNTOP]

North Carolina, thought about trying myself. Have enough tools