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.460 / .465 ball
- Thread starter Ian Pratt
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Ian Pratt said:
Making the rifle does not bind you to furnishing ammo.
http://www.jt-bullet-moulds.co.uk/moulds.htm
Makes custom RB moulds, no sprue cutter but good moulds.
Fast service in my experience. Send money to a US address and the mould arrives about a week later.
Then he can cast his own balls.
Dan
paulvallandigham
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Perhaps a REALITY CHECK is in order. When you decided to have a rifle in a caliber out of the ordinary, you are almost doomed to custom loading, and custom casting of balls and bullets.
No one can afford to own ball and bullet molds of a wide variety of ODD-Ball diameters, much less expect to make an honest return on such an investment. People do not cast balls and bullets for their health. They cast them to make money, and they are not well paid, even then.
That is REALITY. I visited this subject a few years ago when someone came out with a " .49 " caliber rifle of some kind. I questioned the sanity of bringing out such a caliber, when no one would be able to tell the difference between a .49 caliber and a .50 caliber. I have the same problem with companies who bring out .53 caliber rifles, instead of the more common .54. In each case, where are people to find balls and bullets that they can buy at retail, rather than cast them???
Having said that, I have a friend who restored an 1840s vintage target rifle in .48 caliber. Its a bullet gun, and he made his own bullet mold, and sizing dies, and cast his own bullets. But he knew what he was up against going into the project. Its a fine rifle, and his wife won some national titles shooting it.
Some custom caster like Eddie May might be able to help this shooter out, but it would take someone like him, who has hundreds of molds, to be able to fill the bill. I think people should be thinking ahead of time before they decide if they really want a " wildcat cartridge rifle", or an odd-caliber MLer. It does impose extra concerns to keep it fed.
And, I am not criticizing any .47 or .48, or .49 caliber gun. I felt the same thing many years ago when I found out that .45 caliber MLers were being made to use .457, .454, .452, .451, .445, .440, and even .433 diameter balls( altho some companies confused the area a bit more by referring to the .433 caliber guns as ".44s".
I know enough of the history of these guns to understand why we have so many ".45s", and how they came about, but I really think the industry did the buying public no favors trying to be HISTORICALLY CORRECT in the replica guns they made, and make.
No one can afford to own ball and bullet molds of a wide variety of ODD-Ball diameters, much less expect to make an honest return on such an investment. People do not cast balls and bullets for their health. They cast them to make money, and they are not well paid, even then.
That is REALITY. I visited this subject a few years ago when someone came out with a " .49 " caliber rifle of some kind. I questioned the sanity of bringing out such a caliber, when no one would be able to tell the difference between a .49 caliber and a .50 caliber. I have the same problem with companies who bring out .53 caliber rifles, instead of the more common .54. In each case, where are people to find balls and bullets that they can buy at retail, rather than cast them???
Having said that, I have a friend who restored an 1840s vintage target rifle in .48 caliber. Its a bullet gun, and he made his own bullet mold, and sizing dies, and cast his own bullets. But he knew what he was up against going into the project. Its a fine rifle, and his wife won some national titles shooting it.
Some custom caster like Eddie May might be able to help this shooter out, but it would take someone like him, who has hundreds of molds, to be able to fill the bill. I think people should be thinking ahead of time before they decide if they really want a " wildcat cartridge rifle", or an odd-caliber MLer. It does impose extra concerns to keep it fed.
And, I am not criticizing any .47 or .48, or .49 caliber gun. I felt the same thing many years ago when I found out that .45 caliber MLers were being made to use .457, .454, .452, .451, .445, .440, and even .433 diameter balls( altho some companies confused the area a bit more by referring to the .433 caliber guns as ".44s".
I know enough of the history of these guns to understand why we have so many ".45s", and how they came about, but I really think the industry did the buying public no favors trying to be HISTORICALLY CORRECT in the replica guns they made, and make.
Ian, to try and answer the question you actually asked, here's a couple places to call to see if they happen to make what you're looking for...and if not, they may know somebody in the biz who does:
Eddie May Round Balls
159 Ridley Rd.
Chatsworth, GA 30705
706-581-8225
Rush Creek Roundball
205 W. Franklin St.
Kenton, Ohio 43326
419-674-4946
877-674-4947 (orders only)
Eddie May Round Balls
159 Ridley Rd.
Chatsworth, GA 30705
706-581-8225
Rush Creek Roundball
205 W. Franklin St.
Kenton, Ohio 43326
419-674-4946
877-674-4947 (orders only)
Thank you sir, I appreciate the information. I will give them a call today and see what we can find out.
There is a gentleman who sets up next to my table at Dixon's, also has a booth at Friendship, who I have bought harder to find calibers of cast ball from. Can't for the life of me remember the company name, still have some .355's I know I got from him but the tag is gone off the bag.
There is a gentleman who sets up next to my table at Dixon's, also has a booth at Friendship, who I have bought harder to find calibers of cast ball from. Can't for the life of me remember the company name, still have some .355's I know I got from him but the tag is gone off the bag.
paulvallandigham
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You never say WHY this customer can't cast his own. I find that lack of information very disturbing.
I was in a similar situation a couple of times, when I needed some work done, but didn't have all the equipment needed to do it. I Bought a chambering reamer for a cartridge, and gave it to the gunsmith who did the work for me. He then kept the reamer, discounted the cost of my work, and now had another reamer for his work, so that he could offer to do similar work to other customers.
IF I were in your customer's shoes, I would find someone who does casting for themselves, see if a " DEAL" could be struck, where I bought the mold, but they kept it in their " stable " of molds, and cast balls from me when I needed them. IN the meanwhile, if someone needed that caliber of ball, they would be free to use the mold to cast and sell balls to the other customer.
Custom molds can be obtained from Rapine, NEI, and others. They can be pricey, but if that is what you need, you buy it. Tanner's molds would be the cheapest, but without a sprue cutter, some people are not happy.
I have a friend who has been a custom caster for many years, and he can't count all the molds he has. I always check with him when looking for a mold of any size. He is a bullet caster, however, and only rarely casts RBs for some folks.
I was in a similar situation a couple of times, when I needed some work done, but didn't have all the equipment needed to do it. I Bought a chambering reamer for a cartridge, and gave it to the gunsmith who did the work for me. He then kept the reamer, discounted the cost of my work, and now had another reamer for his work, so that he could offer to do similar work to other customers.
IF I were in your customer's shoes, I would find someone who does casting for themselves, see if a " DEAL" could be struck, where I bought the mold, but they kept it in their " stable " of molds, and cast balls from me when I needed them. IN the meanwhile, if someone needed that caliber of ball, they would be free to use the mold to cast and sell balls to the other customer.
Custom molds can be obtained from Rapine, NEI, and others. They can be pricey, but if that is what you need, you buy it. Tanner's molds would be the cheapest, but without a sprue cutter, some people are not happy.
I have a friend who has been a custom caster for many years, and he can't count all the molds he has. I always check with him when looking for a mold of any size. He is a bullet caster, however, and only rarely casts RBs for some folks.
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Ian Pratt said:
Isn't this kind of like making rims for a car, in a size that nobody makes tires for? What were you thinking?
I apologize for having caused such a stir, but thanks to some of you I realize now that I have not thought this through and I am just as disturbed and distraught about it as you are, alarmed even. I intend to go back out in the shop and hot cut that pristine .47 caliber wrought iron rifle barrel into little chunks. I will forge weld the pieces into a ball, chain it to my ankle and abandon the profession of gun building to roam the hills aimlessly until I die of exposure - If it's ok I'm going to finish my lunch first, since it's made already, but right afterwards I'll get on it.
paulvallandigham
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That is a very good suggestion. And, if the gun Absolutely needs a .460 caliber ball, a .457 mold can be opened up a few thousandths to provide the ball diameter desired.
paulvallandigham
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Sorry if my questions bother you so much. It was NOT my intent to criticize you as a barrel maker or gun maker. I am sure someone had reasons to build such a caliber barrel. I was just questioning the choice? Carl makes a good analogy, even if its painful to you.
When I owned a foreign Made .45 rifle, I was greatly frustrated shopping for cast or swaged balls at Friendship, because some dealers would have every size, EXCEPT what I needed on their tables. I tried .445 balls with a thinner patch, but the patches were shredded in the shooting. I was lucky and found another shooter in the club who used that diameter .45 ball, and I sold him the rest of the box, albeit at a discount. I did locate enough .440" balls to keep a supply of 300+ on hand all the time, as I also didn't want to have to cast my own. When I sold the gun, the buyer was thrilled to get my stash of balls, and the patches I had also hoarded.
I would like to think my own experience lets me know the frustration you, or your customer is facing, but I still was interested in the " Why?" I got into my trouble because I was New to MLing, I didn't know anything about the gun I bought other than it was cheaper than anything else I had seen, and I didn't want to spend a lot of money to get into the sport. If I got " hooked"-- now there is an idea that sounds very funny after all these years, ie. " IF?" ---then I would spend the money to get a good rifle.
Your customer does not sound like the "novice " I was when I stepped in my own pile of troubles, so I wanted to know his thinking. That is all.
Lighten up. If you are going to build guns, or gun parts, you are going to hear just about everything. I admire you for your obvious talent in making the barrel. :thumbsup:
When I owned a foreign Made .45 rifle, I was greatly frustrated shopping for cast or swaged balls at Friendship, because some dealers would have every size, EXCEPT what I needed on their tables. I tried .445 balls with a thinner patch, but the patches were shredded in the shooting. I was lucky and found another shooter in the club who used that diameter .45 ball, and I sold him the rest of the box, albeit at a discount. I did locate enough .440" balls to keep a supply of 300+ on hand all the time, as I also didn't want to have to cast my own. When I sold the gun, the buyer was thrilled to get my stash of balls, and the patches I had also hoarded.
I would like to think my own experience lets me know the frustration you, or your customer is facing, but I still was interested in the " Why?" I got into my trouble because I was New to MLing, I didn't know anything about the gun I bought other than it was cheaper than anything else I had seen, and I didn't want to spend a lot of money to get into the sport. If I got " hooked"-- now there is an idea that sounds very funny after all these years, ie. " IF?" ---then I would spend the money to get a good rifle.
Your customer does not sound like the "novice " I was when I stepped in my own pile of troubles, so I wanted to know his thinking. That is all.
Lighten up. If you are going to build guns, or gun parts, you are going to hear just about everything. I admire you for your obvious talent in making the barrel. :thumbsup:
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paulvallandigham said:
Perhaps if I had worded it differently, I could have received an honest answer, instead of a joke reply. But, who makes a gun without knowing if there are balls that will fit? Is this common practice among gun makers"?
Guest
Hey, Ian, how come all your previous topics were for classes at the Log Cabin Shop? You work there?
:grin:Ian Pratt said:
You just have to ignore them...there are a few here who always wade in uninvited whenever they see someone doing something out side their limited, fixed paradigm...tossing in armchair theories or condesending attitudes towards the
poster who dares to be different.
A humorous example was when I mentioned I was having an early Virginia rifle built without a patchbox...it was downright comical to watch these same folks chime in with all the reasons why I shouldn't build a custom rifle that way..."it should be built this way"...you get the picture...just ignore them.
Sounds like that .457" suggestion might work with the right patch...let us know how it turns out if you try those...
