4F Black Powder Question

[Carbon 6]

Been addressed two times within the last two pages, dead horse .

I'm playing catch up.

 

[user 43911]

I missed your post, exactly the point i have been trying to get at all along, and if he is shooting No. 4 powder instead of 4fg powder the size is actually even larger due to the European sizing.

Another point ( not just you), people do not read posts beyond two or three before they make a comment. This should be locked thread, it will just go on and on. I do not think it should be deleted as I stated before, it will just be resurrected.

 

[Carbon 6]

I think we Americans should adopt the corns per gram scale.

SHOOTING POWDER
Type	Corns	Granulation	Use	Packing
	per gram	(mm)		100 g (for the Swiss Market)	500 g	1 kg	1 lb (for the US market)
N°1 (4 Fg)	10 000 - 15 000	0,250 - 0,500	Muzzle loading handgun
N°2 (3 Fg)	3 000 - 5 000	0,500 - 0,800	Muzzle loading rifle
N° 3 (2 Fg)	1 000 - 2 000	0,650 - 1,200	Muzzle loading rifle	(not available)
N°4 (1 1/2 Fg)	700 - 900	0,850 - 1,200	Muzzle loading rifle	(not available)
N°5 (1 Fg)	430 - 480	1,200 - 1,600	Muzzle loading rifle	(not available)

 

[George]

I hope that anyone reading this post will take pause and examine what they are about to do further, that they might learn something.

I always pause before doing things, after is popular but too late.

Way back in this thread I challenged any and all to provide proof of even one barrel blown up by any amount of any granulation of powder when loaded normally. None have been posted. The way I learn stuff is from evidence, and none is forthcoming. I've been shooting BP for 50 years and have never seen such a blow up, personally, have also never seen one reported on any of the several boards I've been on in that time. What I have seen is a lot of evidence, such as that from Fadala, that it may be impossible to blow up a barrel in good shape with any amount of powder loaded normally. Such evidence isn't popular, but it's all that's available, so I'll learn what I can from it. Give me new evidence and I'll "pause and examine" whether I need to change my understanding of this question.

Spence

 

[TNGhost]

Is that like the "common sense" gun control you parroted in the thread about Cabela's no longer shipping BP arms?

 

[Carbon 6]

What I have seen is a lot of evidence, such as that from Fadala, that it may be impossible to blow up a barrel in good shape with any amount of powder loaded normally.

I'm not comfortable operating under the false assumption that my gun barrel is indestructible.

 

[Carbon 6]

you could try and be sure? CO now a high humidity state? muggy here this AM up to 18%

Muggy at 18%. That's funny.

 

[user 36911]

The warning doesn't need to be written on the barrel. Guns come with a manual that has recommended loads. I have never seen a load of 4F recommended.

Plus, we have the recommendations from the powder companies. A little common sense goes a long way.

 

[fleener]

Brit

When I look at your powder vs the swiss that I posted, it seems you have a larger spread of sizes within your powder.

I had some Chinese powder once that was terrible for sizing, all over the place and it also had other foreign material in it. Still got a film canister full of it somewhere.

We certainly cant let facts get in the way of a good argument.

Fleener

 

[Carbon 6]

The warning doesn't need to written on the barrel. Guns come with a manual that has recommended loads. I have never seen a load of 4F recommended.

Well, I actually have seen manual loads for 4f, but that was a special circumstance and certainly doesn't apply to all muzzleloaders.

 

[user 36911]

Well, I actually have seen manual loads for 4f, but that was a special circumstance and certainly doesn't apply to all muzzleloaders.

I'm curious. What was the circumstance?

 

[mooman76]

Muggy at 18%. That's funny.

When I lived in Vegas, they wined when the humidity hit +13%.

 

[Carbon 6]

I'm curious. What was the circumstance?

It was a small handgun. Very small.

 

[Carbon 6]

When I lived in Vegas, they wined when the humidity hit +13%.

I'm at a very low 60% right now, break out the laundry.

 

[longcruise]

We are just creeping down to normal. Down to 16% right now at 89*. Time for a bike ride.

Bill Knight advises that bp burn speed is related to surface area. That each increase in granulation number (decrease in granulation size) doubles the surface area so therefore it will burn faster and at higher pressure. He also noted that powder finer than 4f passed some sort of point of diminishing returns and burned slower.

 

[RAEDWALD]

As grain sizes have been quoted I thought that I would confuse folk with the grain size of the powder I use in lieu of Swiss whenever it is on very special offer and so is vastly cheaper. Vectan PNF Mosquet. French government made 'Musket' powder. It comes in grains with a range from 0,60mm to 2,00mm. For the impecunious shotgun user there is Vectan PNF Chasse powder which is sieved to 0,20mm to 1,00mm. I use the Mosquet in a musket with an 8,0gram charge to give a fine display of smoke and fire just for the effect. BTW their 4F equivalent is the Vectan PNF4 which comes in 0,10mm to 0,25mm. Make of that what you may. Dusty stuff with less power and consistency than Swiss.

 

[Nameless Hunter]

All in all, this has been a MOST educational read...

 

[Zonie]

Well, we are down to telling folks what the relative humidity is so I'll toss in, it currently is at 109°F outside with a relative humidity of 5%.

Now, before this thread gets into discussing some strange French method of grading black powder and if their finest grade is suitable for using it as a main powder charge, I think I'll close this topic.