4f in rifle?

[The Crisco Kid]

It's true! This is what can happen if you load 4f into a rifle!

I thought that was from Null B.

 

[maillemaker]

What you have to remember is that black powder is black powder is black powder. 30 grains by weight of 2F Goex contains the same amount of energy as 30 grains by weight of 4F. I believe what is different is the surface area of the grains and the propagation speed of the flame through the charge. Generally speaking, I think finer grains burn at a faster rate than larger grains, so you dump that energy over a smaller amount of time (larger pressure spike).

 

[jdw276]

Looks just like starting a fire. Twigs vs logs. Start a small fire with small twigs, make a big fire with big logs. Same as grain size, just exagerated.

 

[SDSmlf]

I have burned quite a few pounds of 4F over the years. I have also found finer than what we call 4F powder in period loadings (tore down original Smith Carbine cartridges) and in the original powder horn that came with 1858 family gun….

Don’t see much if any difference in 32 caliber guns except maybe a bit less fouling. I run a rather large touch hole so I have to block the touch for both 3F and 4F or I auto prime.

Personally use 3F Swiss in about everything to keep things simple. From pistols and rifles from 32 thru 62 caliber and 12 gauge smoothbores. But won’t hesitate to use 4F in any gun with appropriately REDUCED loads, the same practice as when going from 1F to 2F or 2F to 3F. Pressure curves are different, but have never been an issue.

Unfortunately, to many 4F is the Devil’s powder. Sure do miss @Britsmoothy and his perspective on this and other topics. Would like to think he is lurking and keeping tabs on us.

 

[jdw276]

"Unfortunately, to many 4F is the Devil’s powder. Sure do miss @Britsmoothy and his perspective on this and other topics. Would like to think he is lurking and keeping tabs on us."

Nope gone. Per his profile last visit was 4/6. Very sad for all of us due to one person it seemed.

 

[1BadDart]

I'm reading "The Kentucky Rifle", first published in 1924. In the book, there a bunch of images of (great) targets shot with 4F. Generally, the distance, projectile weight and charge weight are written on the targets, but not the caliber. The thing that struck me was that the weights, most of the time were down to the tenth, for instance 63.1 gr. That tells me that at least some of the target shooters were weighing their charges, not loading by volume.

 

[user 49399]

An old fellow once told me “if I can push a round ball down a barrel with my bare hands, any black powder will push it back out”.

I submit this for free.

 

[Bruce]

any one have a Pedersoli Scout .45 pecussion , do you like it

 

[Brokennock]

any one have a Pedersoli Scout .45 pecussion , do you like it

?????

Why not start a topic and ask?

 

[jimairwin]

i have been thinking about this, has anybody ever tried light charges of 4F as the main charge in say a 40 cal. or smaller. and if so, how did it shoot? if the average load in a 40 is about 40gr. i would think you should be able to shoot 20-25gr. with no problem. and yes, i have a couple of cans of 4F i need to burn,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I have at times used "extra" 4fG in everything up to 40 mm cannon!

 

[Whiteoak15]

I was given a quantity of 5FA and 25 grs. of it works fine in a repro .44 Army with round balls. Ditto in a .45 T-C Hawken, 40 grs. with round ball. If someone offered me a deal on 4F and I was in need, I'd take it!

 

[springfield art]

i have been thinking about this, has anybody ever tried light charges of 4F as the main charge in say a 40 cal. or smaller. and if so, how did it shoot? if the average load in a 40 is about 40gr. i would think you should be able to shoot 20-25gr. with no problem. and yes, i have a couple of cans of 4F i need to burn,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Should be no problem. I'm sure lots of guys with experience doing that will reply. 4F isn't dynamite, you know!

 

[springfield art]

An old fellow once told me “if I can push a round ball down a barrel with my bare hands, any black powder will push it back out”.

I submit this for free.

I, too have extra 4F; when I found out the Goex plant was closing, (great that it's gonna re-open!) I grabbed up couple extra cans of the 4F before my local dealer found out!

 

[M. De Land]

I'm reading "The Kentucky Rifle", first published in 1924. In the book, there a bunch of images of (great) targets shot with 4F. Generally, the distance, projectile weight and charge weight are written on the targets, but not the caliber. The thing that struck me was that the weights, most of the time were down to the tenth, for instance 63.1 gr. That tells me that at least some of the target shooters were weighing their charges, not loading by volume.

I wonder at times if the assumption that the way it was done back "then" is actually the best way to do the job! On occasion I have discovered in my life that the way things were done in history have been proven to be inferior to advanced technological findings.
The problem with black powder weight measuring (in my opinion) as opposed to balk measuring is that granulation uniformity has more to do with the burn rate consistency than does exact mass weight.

 

[1BadDart]

I wonder at times if the assumption that the way it was done back "then" is actually the best way to do the job! On occasion I have discovered in my life that the way things were done in history have been proven to be inferior to advanced technological findings.
The problem with black powder weight measuring (in my opinion) as opposed to balk measuring is that granulation uniformity has more to do with the burn rate consistency than does exact mass weight.

I don't have the answer to that. I'm sure that there were guys arguing the benefits of weighing balls and charges back then too. The more things change, the more they stay the same. LOL

 

[APG]

I have used, and am using 3Fg in my .58 cal. 1861 Springfield by Pedersoli at a reduced load. 45 grains and it works just fine. I started using it due to the unavailability of 2Fg. I don't see why 4Fg would be a problem if using reduced loads. I've even thought about using the other grade like 1Fg and even the other stuff for blanks.

 

[Wildrangeringreen]

There's a difference between safe/functional and ideal. The courser granulations take a little longer to be consumed, and are able to maintain peak pressures a little longer. That means you can (theoretically) get more velocity out of a course granulation than fine, if loaded to the same peak pressures (which will require more course powder to do). That being said, the differences are tiny, we're dealing with a simple explosive that are sifted through different screens, not the cornucopia of smokeless formulations. In any case, you aren't really going to "blow up a gun", made with modern steels and process (especially not in the thicknesses most of us have barrels at), with a reasonable proof load of black powder.

 

[BP Addict]

I haven't thought of it in a Rifle as they've always said to NEVER use 4F for anything but pan priming when describing the grades of powder.

However, I did use it once in a repro 1849 31 caliber Baby Dragoon revolver. My daughter wanted to shoot her pistol and that's all I had on hand.

I suppose if you loaded it down, oh say, by 10% or so, it might be okay in a small bore rifle like a 32, 36, or 40. I'm not sure if I'd try it in anything bigger although several people here have already stated that they had.

Walt

 

[springfield art]

I have never thought of it in a Rifle as they've always said to NEVER use 4F for anything but pan priming when describing the grades of powder.

However, I did use it once in a repro 1849 31 caliber Baby Dragoon revolver. My daughter wanted to shoot her pistol and that's all I had on hand.

I suppose if you loaded it down, oh say, by 10% or so, it might be okay in a small bore rifle like a 32, 36, or 40. I'm not sure if I'd try it in anything bigger although several people here have already stated that they had.

Walt

Oh, c'mon on , the warning to NEVER is a bit too strong. As one other commenter said, it's all black powder, not like using smokeless in reloading. The guy who posted the hilarious video of a 1950's atom bomb test had it right; it's not all that dangerous.

 

[hanshi]

I've never used 4F as a main charge, never had to. Would I if that's all I had? In a heartbeat.