50 cal for elk yay or nay

[Ranch 13]

50 will do fine on elk, roundball or conical, take your pick.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

FWIW, I think of muzzleloaders and round balls compared to centerfire rifles sort of like this, with both being used at typical woods distances:

The .45cal is like a .243...the energy of a light 128grn ball has range sesnsitivity and shot placement is absolutely critical, wait for the heart, wait to avoid bone, etc;

The .50cal is like a .30-30...has good medium energy, still prefer good clear shot placement...energy of the 180grn ball carries higher further than a .45cal, and a clear, standing heart/lung shot at 100yds using a rest will work on whitetails;

The .54cal is like a .30-06...a more powerful round ball caliber, the 230grn ball carries high energy to greater distances, and hitting bone will usually not be a major issue;

The .58cal is like a .300mag...a big frontal area, the heavy 279grn ball will take most of the big game on the NA continent except things that bite back, carries higher energy to longer ranges, and shot angle has the least restrictions given the heavy ball's ability to penetrate through a lot of stuff.

Just a way I think about them in the relatively close range woods settings I'm talking about...

Very well Put! :bow:

That pretty much sums it up! :grin:

:hatsoff: howdy everbody
Well I have read this post several times without the time to write so here goes.
Nothing personal roundball but I am going to have to disagree with the compairson to roundball and centerfire. thats compairing oranges to apples.
The is no knock down power when it comes to roundball just hole size and penitration when it comes to Elk. I have killed many a elk with a muzzleloader and the only time I actually knocked one down is hitting it in the spine(bad shot)
So you ask why am I diagreeing well top speed of my 50cal with 100 ffg is 2,100 fps a 3030 170 grn bullet is 2,200 FPS WITH A LOT MORE DOWN RANGE ENERGY! So when it comes to a 300 hundred win and a 58 cal there is even less compairson.
I have seen the damage of a 300 used on a elk and at 100yrds or less with a 200 grn bullet a double lung shot may knock that elk down. I have guided elk hunting here in CO sence 1988 and have seen all types of guns used. Everybody wants "knockdown power" What I stress is shot placement. you can kill an elk with a 22cal, doublelung shot. I woulden'r advise it morally or legally. Ok my tangent is over, now for the 50cal big enough question, yes!! it is very adiquite.
This year CoyoteJoe killed his elk with a round ball and 90grs ffg at 80 to 90 yrds it went 30 yrds and toppled the bullet passed straight through. I killed my elk at 90 to 100 yrds with 100grn ffg the wind was blowing strong enough to drift my ball 3" foward and it pentrated the front blade. passing through both lungs and lodging in the hide on the oppisite side. I recovered it . It now resides in my medican bag.
Now if you haven't bought your rifle yet than by all means get a 54 cal but remember only a spine or head shot will knock a elk down with a roundball, so practice, practice, practice!! because shot placement is what it's all about.
A clean doublelung shot with a 50cal on an elk will bleed it out and kill it under two min garantee. I have done it time and time again. Rember tho it may stay put, go 20yrds or get caught up in the herd and go 100yrds so lean to track as well. Bad tracking means loss of critter.Anyway take er easy
Greenmtnboy :thumbsup:

 

[John Wasmuth]

If I can kill a buffalo with 95 grains of FFg and a .490 patched round ball, I'm sure ya can kill an elk with it. Just pick yer shot.

 

[sidelock]

Wonder what L&C used on their buffalo and elk????? :thumbsup:

 

[cayugad]

Is a 50 enough for elk or not if so what bullet powder combo?

If this is the only rifle you have then you really have no choice. If the rifle is a 1-66 twist then roundball would be your best bet or even a ball-et.

If the rifle you have is a 1-48 twist then I might look into something like a Great Plains Conical, Maxiball, or Buffalo Bullet Conical. Only so you get more weight, more penetration, and more energy into the animal.

Will a roundball kill an elk? Sure, get close enough and put it in the right place. If I had a choice of calibers I would go larger in the roundball department. If I had an option of different projectiles, then I would look for the one that delivered the most energy down range and was also the most accurate. A poor shooting projectile is of no real use either..

Good luck

 

[sniper68]

If you have a 1/48 w/shallow rifling, stick with a REAL bullet or whatever. Assuming ya got a slow twist,in 66 or so, with cut rifleing yer good to go for a PRB. For big and or thick skinned game, penitration becomes a little more important than expansion. Cast some balls using a mix of 50% wheel weights and 50% pure lead w/80-90 grns FFFG or 90-100 grns FFG. You'll probabaly need to use an over the powder wad (covered elsewere) to keep from burning the patch. If you can maintain a 1 1/2 or less group off the bench at 50 yds your good to go. :v

 

[roundball]

FWIW, I think of muzzleloaders and round balls compared to centerfire rifles sort of like this, with both being used at typical woods distances:

The .45cal is like a .243...the energy of a light 128grn ball has range sesnsitivity and shot placement is absolutely critical, wait for the heart, wait to avoid bone, etc;

The .50cal is like a .30-30...has good medium energy, still prefer good clear shot placement...energy of the 180grn ball carries higher further than a .45cal, and a clear, standing heart/lung shot at 100yds using a rest will work on whitetails;

The .54cal is like a .30-06...a more powerful round ball caliber, the 230grn ball carries high energy to greater distances, and hitting bone will usually not be a major issue;

The .58cal is like a .300mag...a big frontal area, the heavy 279grn ball will take most of the big game on the NA continent except things that bite back, carries higher energy to longer ranges, and shot angle has the least restrictions given the heavy ball's ability to penetrate through a lot of stuff.

Just a way I think about them in the relatively close range woods settings I'm talking about...

Very well Put! :bow:

That pretty much sums it up! :grin:

:hatsoff: howdy everbody
Well I have read this post several times without the time to write so here goes.
Nothing personal roundball but I am going to have to disagree with the compairson to roundball and centerfire. thats compairing oranges to apples.
The is no knock down power when it comes to roundball just hole size and penitration when it comes to Elk. I have killed many a elk with a muzzleloader and the only time I actually knocked one down is hitting it in the spine(bad shot)
So you ask why am I diagreeing well top speed of my 50cal with 100 ffg is 2,100 fps a 3030 170 grn bullet is 2,200 FPS WITH A LOT MORE DOWN RANGE ENERGY! So when it comes to a 300 hundred win and a 58 cal there is even less compairson.
I have seen the damage of a 300 used on a elk and at 100yrds or less with a 200 grn bullet a double lung shot may knock that elk down. I have guided elk hunting here in CO sence 1988 and have seen all types of guns used. Everybody wants "knockdown power" What I stress is shot placement. you can kill an elk with a 22cal, doublelung shot. I woulden'r advise it morally or legally. Ok my tangent is over, now for the 50cal big enough question, yes!! it is very adiquite.
This year CoyoteJoe killed his elk with a round ball and 90grs ffg at 80 to 90 yrds it went 30 yrds and toppled the bullet passed straight through. I killed my elk at 90 to 100 yrds with 100grn ffg the wind was blowing strong enough to drift my ball 3" foward and it pentrated the front blade. passing through both lungs and lodging in the hide on the oppisite side. I recovered it . It now resides in my medican bag.
Now if you haven't bought your rifle yet than by all means get a 54 cal but remember only a spine or head shot will knock a elk down with a roundball, so practice, practice, practice!! because shot placement is what it's all about.
A clean doublelung shot with a 50cal on an elk will bleed it out and kill it under two min garantee. I have done it time and time again. Rember tho it may stay put, go 20yrds or get caught up in the herd and go 100yrds so lean to track as well. Bad tracking means loss of critter.Anyway take er easy
Greenmtnboy :thumbsup:

You missed the basic point...it was NOT a direct comparison of a muzzleloader TO a centerfire.

It is a way of thinking of the different ML calibers AMONG THEMSELVES, in a way similar to the way we often compare diFferent calibers in the centerfire world.

Ie you have to be much more sensitive when using a .243 than you do compared to using a .300 Magnum...just an anology to using a .45cal ML vs. a .58cal.

 

roundball, I understood what you meant; and greenmtboy also makes good points. I'd rather compare BP rifle end ballistics with modern handguns. Tests have shown what shooters have known for years that a larger entry hole (i.e., larger bullet frontal area) kills faster than a smaller one. Thus, the .45 auto is better than the 9mm auto in stopping efficiency. Personally I would prefer the .54 over the .50 for similar reasons (plus the heavier lead weight). In addition, the .54 is a very efficient caliber when it comes to loads--what it takes to achieve hunting velocities/energies as compared to the larger calibers. No doubt a .50 will kill an elk with proper shot placement and even a .30-06 will not with poor placement. My limited (but successful!) elk hunting experiences taught me to use enough gun--they are tough animals. The .54 gives one a little more edge.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

roundball, I understood what you meant; and greenmtboy also makes good points. I'd rather compare BP rifle end ballistics with modern handguns. Tests have shown what shooters have known for years that a larger entry hole (i.e., larger bullet frontal area) kills faster than a smaller one. Thus, the .45 auto is better than the 9mm auto in stopping efficiency. Personally I would prefer the .54 over the .50 for similar reasons (plus the heavier lead weight). In addition, the .54 is a very efficient caliber when it comes to loads--what it takes to achieve hunting velocities/energies as compared to the larger calibers. No doubt a .50 will kill an elk with proper shot placement and even a .30-06 will not with poor placement. My limited (but successful!) elk hunting experiences taught me to use enough gun--they are tough animals. The .54 gives one a little more edge.

Hay mike right on. I am a ferm beliver that with muzzleloading elk punching a big hole for quick bleed out is far more imporant than knockdown power. Which is impossible with a large slow moving projectile anyway in the heart lung area. That said I am just now breaking in my new TVM Leman in 54 cal :bow:
Man does it group like a target rifle. 7/8 inch 5 shot group at 50 yrds. using 100grains of ffg goex. I hand laped it with NECO lapping compound and have about 60 rounds through it. 150 more than off to the 100 yrd range. I am just shooting 80grains for break in and doing that off hand at my three inch steel swinger at 50 yrds. That 220 grain ball with a dead center shot hits that swinger so hard that it gets yanked!! out of the stump it is in and hucks it :haha:
my 50 never did that.
Anyway, ya I am into my 54 and can't waite to see how it's gonna do during elk season.
takecare yall.
Greenmtnboy