.50 cal Lyman Great Plains Bullet Zero

[azsixshooter]

I have an old CVA Hawken that someone gave me that I use sometimes for Whitetail Deer hunting here in the limited firearms zone in Michigan.

This year I'm shooting 385 grain Lyman Great Plains bullets with 100 grains of Goex FF.

What is a good maximum point blank range for this combination? I'm thinking 125 yards, but I don't have any ballistics data and haven't had a chance to shoot it too much yet. I did work up to that 100 grain charge and got nice results but I haven't shot at 100 yet to see what kind of drop to expect.

I'll be hitting the range some more this month so thanks for any thoughts on zeroing this combination. Rifle has a 32" barrel and 1:48" twist. Shooting 3 shot groups at 50 yards around .650" average.

Thanks,

Steve

 

[longcruise]

Hmmmm..... @chorizo ?????

 

[Phil Coffins]

Maximum point blank starts with maximum target size. That means if you are trying to stay inside a 6” circle then that means the bullet must not raise or fall more than 3” from muzzle to target. Velocity and bullet ballistic coefficient then how accurate the rifle and shooter is.

 

[Christophero]

When I shot the T/C MaxiHunter Conical exclusively (355 grains) I printed 2" high at 50 yards, would hit the 2" black bullseye at 100 yards and still blow up water filled one gallon jugs without any problem at 125 yards. This was with 65 grains of FFFg Goex BP, roughly equivalent to 80 grains of FFg, around 1,180 fps via the chrony, iirc. The rifle was/is a T/C Renegade 50 Cal, 1/48" Twist.
200 yards required approximately an 18" hold over on the steel gong. I was much younger, sharper vision and the impacts were consistent.
Hope this helps.

 

[chorizo]

Using a 6" target size (kill zone of a deer) 125 yards would be good, 120 yards better (3" drop) for max point blank. Expect 1456 fps mv with 3.6 inches of drop at 125 yards for your load as published in your post. Retained energy of 972 ft lbs should be good for your normal size White tail, unless you live where there are the big guys. I would shoot a mule deer with that load.

My only concern is that you are dropping below super sonic into sub-sonic at 100 yards and your velocity may suffer. I would try a few groups at 125 to make sure your bullet isn't going funky as it goes sub sonic. If you used 100 grains of FFFg your muzzle velocity would be 100 fps more (1541fps) and would remain at or above 1110 fps at 125 yards. But I don't know what that would do to your accuracy.

The only way to know is after validation of the calculations is to try 125 yard groups to see if your bullet is still stable beyond 100 yards. If you 50 yard .650 average group holds you should have a 1.65" group at 125 (call it 2" for sighting error) If the group has opened up and the shots are all over the place, then going sub-sonic is causing your bullet to fly erratically.

Some calculations below for your gun and load. You need to validate them at 50 yards and 100 yards to see if drop matches calculations. Sight in 2.2" high at 50 yards and move out to 100 yards and see if your group is centered on the bull and you are still getting a good group. If all is well try a couple at 125 yards.

If drop matches calculations then you can feel good that the MV is correct also.

 

[azsixshooter]

Thank you so much for taking the time to crunch those ballistics for me. I really appreciate it. Looks like I will raise my zero from 50 to 100 yards.

In all honesty, I am not expecting to shoot a deer anywhere near 100 yards where I usually hunt. All the deer I've ever killed have been inside of 35 yards. But I love rifle shooting and I enjoy setting up a rifle to perform at its best (within whatever constraints I might put on it.)

I was running out of light when I was shooting groups to find a good powder charge to hunt with. Once I saw that 100 grains gave acceptable groups I just stopped there and called it good.

If I have more time and can get more bullets I'd be happy to experiment more with hotter loads and see if things continue to tighten up or, at least maintain acceptable accuracy and performance. I would like to achieve the most effective loading I can find with the components I'm using.

Next time I hit the range I'll be armed with the ballistics data you generously provided me with so I'll be able to figure out what my limitations are with this setup.

I'm a little late getting going this year with this gun, but I also hunt with a .41 Mag Blackhawk that works great on deer for me. I've never got a deer with a muzzleloader though so I want to try and work harder this year to harvest one with the smokepole.

I enjoy shooting this .50 cal CVA so I plan to keep tweaking the load until I find a good combination I like to hunt with using components that are commonly available. I just might not be able to do too much more this season as archery started a couple days ago and I only have 20 more of these Great Plains bullets left for experimenting and hunting.

If I can pick up another 20 pack of them I will, but if I have to go to war with what I've got now I think this combo and a 100 yard zero should be more than adequate for now.

I would like to at least compare what I get to the ballistics table and practice some 100 yard off-hand shooting with this load and make sure I can at least consistently shoot minute-of-deer, if not better, with it.

Thanks again for your kind help and expertise! It is very appreciated sir!

Keep yer powder dry,

Steve

 

[chorizo]

@azsixshooter
Try this sight in then.

1456 fps MV with 385 grain GP bullet 50 cal

1" high at 50 yards, zero at 75 yards, 2.5" low at 100 yards. It won't be going below super sonic and still within a 6" point blank range. If 100 yards is a rare shot, use this for this season until you can work up something better.

Also here is a GP 50 cal at 1500 fps mv fired into a sand bank at 25 yards

 

[stikshooter]

Thank you so much for taking the time to crunch those ballistics for me. I really appreciate it. Looks like I will raise my zero from 50 to 100 yards.

In all honesty, I am not expecting to shoot a deer anywhere near 100 yards where I usually hunt. All the deer I've ever killed have been inside of 35 yards. But I love rifle shooting and I enjoy setting up a rifle to perform at its best (within whatever constraints I might put on it.)

I was running out of light when I was shooting groups to find a good powder charge to hunt with. Once I saw that 100 grains gave acceptable groups I just stopped there and called it good.

If I have more time and can get more bullets I'd be happy to experiment more with hotter loads and see if things continue to tighten up or, at least maintain acceptable accuracy and performance. I would like to achieve the most effective loading I can find with the components I'm using.

Next time I hit the range I'll be armed with the ballistics data you generously provided me with so I'll be able to figure out what my limitations are with this setup.

I'm a little late getting going this year with this gun, but I also hunt with a .41 Mag Blackhawk that works great on deer for me. I've never got a deer with a muzzleloader though so I want to try and work harder this year to harvest one with the smokepole.

I enjoy shooting this .50 cal CVA so I plan to keep tweaking the load until I find a good combination I like to hunt with using components that are commonly available. I just might not be able to do too much more this season as archery started a couple days ago and I only have 20 more of these Great Plains bullets left for experimenting and hunting.

If I can pick up another 20 pack of them I will, but if I have to go to war with what I've got now I think this combo and a 100 yard zero should be more than adequate for now.

I would like to at least compare what I get to the ballistics table and practice some 100 yard off-hand shooting with this load and make sure I can at least consistently shoot minute-of-deer, if not better, with it.

Thanks again for your kind help and expertise! It is very appreciated sir!

Keep yer powder dry,

Steve

Put a Dura Felt wad under the Lyman GP and instantly improve groups (with pure lead) mine group @ 190 yd range and I've killed deer @ 130 ranged yds in my 54 Renegade using non traditional sights/have the same deal going with my other 2 renegades in 50 cal /different twists /Ed

 

[Dale Lilly]

All that is great advice if your eyesight is good and your nerves are under control. I like to either waylay them or sneak up and put their lights out from no more than fifty yards, polecat

 

[chorizo]

95 yards. No sneaking. Couldn't have if I wanted to. She had me made the second she stepped out of the brush.

 

[azsixshooter]

Nice cow! Did you get any ivories out of her?

Thanks for the tip about the Dura Felt wads. I saw that written in other forum posts in regards to conicals, but I didn't know if it would help with these GPs or not.

I love all kinds of guns and hunting, but there's something special about managing to get really close to an animal in its own domain without relying heavily on technology. Rather taking the time to learn to be a woodsman and taking advantage of the advice offered by other hunters who have learned and passed down that special knowledge. That adds such an awesome, rich depth to the whole experience of the hunt and the kill.

When I lived in Arizona I met this really cool older guy up in the mountains and we became good friends. He grew up in western Montana and always told me "Don't brag to me about how far away you shot an animal, brag to me about how close you were able to get to it."

I still like my centerfire rifle a lot and love learning to shoot longer range with it. But I really love hunting with handgun, bow, muzzleloader, etc.

 

[chorizo]

I don't mess with ivories. Too much of a mess especially when it is warm and you need to get the meat out and on ice. Know your gun, know your load and know the distance. Be honest about your own capabilities and take the shot if you are within the parameters. Both have their bragging rights.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Maximum point blank starts with maximum target size. That means if you are trying to stay inside a 6” circle then that means the bullet must not raise or fall more than 3” from muzzle to target. Velocity and bullet ballistic coefficient then how accurate the rifle and shooter is.

A 6" PB .........
If the point of impact is 3" high at say 90 yds, and 3" low at 110 yds, then 100 yds is the 6" point blank.
It may be 10" high at 50.
Just sayin.

 

[Horizontal Hunter]

Put a Dura Felt wad under the Lyman GP and instantly improve groups (with pure lead) mine group @ 190 yd range and I've killed deer @ 130 ranged yds in my 54 Renegade using non traditional sights/have the same deal going with my other 2 renegades in 50 cal /different twists /Ed

X2

an OP wad tightened my .50 TC Maxiball groups as well.

Bob

 

[chorizo]

Just sayin.

Then you don't have a clue what the definition of Point Blank Range is. Look it up.

"Just sayin"

 

[Phil Coffins]

Point blank range is the distance you can aim directly at your target and hit without compensating for the flight of the bullet with in that range.

 

[chorizo]

Point blank range is the distance you can aim directly at your target and hit without compensating for the flight of the bullet with in that range.

And if the target is 6", then the bullet will never climb more than 3" above POA nor drop 3" below the POA out to the Point Blank Range.

 

[stikshooter]

X2

an OP wad tightened my .50 TC Maxiball groups as well.

Bob

Works with all conicals I cast and I got molds for lots ,makes it interesting (it too is a sport) Ed

 

[Thingamajiggy]

Gotta say, a lot of good stuff in this thread. These are the kind of threads I like to find and usually end up reading end to end. A lot of experienced/knowledgeable people on here. Nicely done.

 

[Frontiersman77]

One thing I did notice on the data sheet work up…it was for Swiss BP. I can take the same weight charge of Swiss and Goex in my 50 caliber longrifle, and the Swiss will have a 25 to 30 percent velocity increase over the Goex. That could make quite a difference.