50 cal prb for big game

[roundball]

I will be experimenting with loads of 90 and 100 grain.

Max loads are usually around the 120grn mark

50 cal worked then, why not now, right?

.50cal worked for buffalo when, how, and at what yardage?

When indians or settlers stalked close for a kill?

When only 3 feet away on running horseback?

You asked for opinions on load recommendations for big game buffalo at 75 yards using a .490" round ball...I gave you mine.

If you already have it in your head that a .50cal / .490 with a mid range powder charge is all you need to cleanly harvest a buffalo at 75 yards, it's not clear to me why you're bothering to ask the question...

:wink:

 

[Idaho Ron]

Could you enlighten me on the swaged vs hand poured? I use the round lead balls, provided in the red hornady box, .490 size. Been lookin for a mould, I have lead since I use it for keels in the gunning decoys I carve, but have difficulty finding a 490 mould. That has been what holds me up from some of the woodswalk competitions because I do not have a mould.

A swaged ball is a ball that is made cold under hydraulic or mechanical pressure. From the ones I have seen they are even in weight and diameter. Hand poured is hand poured. Depending on the mould some are better than others. Some guys have posted that "voids" or air pockets have been found in their hand made balls. I have never found this when I am pouring. I weigh each bullet and only keep the ones that are within +- .3 of a grain. Some times I loosen that a bit to .5 grains. Hand made balls also have a rough spot where the sprue was cut.
Years ago I used some CVA balls in my CVA Hawken I shot a deer with it and some small game.
I have used some of the Hornady and Speer balls for plinking over the last couple of years. I have very limited experience with the PRB and I have never poured a round ball.Your questions would be better answered by the others that know more about the subject than I do. Ron

 

[Idaho Ron]

I just looked in the midway catalog. Lee, Lyman, and RCBS all make .490 round ball moulds. Lee has the handles attached. The others you will need the handles. Ron

 

[mdtrekker]

You are correct, I did ask for input, opinion and fact on loads for buffalo. I understand a max load at 120 grain, but I will tune into the accuracy of my gun with the different loads. I will include that in my practice to see where it lands me. Please do not think I have my mind made up in stone because I don't, but for a two year old bull, at a 50-75 yard shot in the lungs, larger animals have been taken with smaller or the same. I am looking to make sure I get all the information I can to determine what will be the best and most ethical within the perameters of my gun and intent. I have spent hours reading, chatting with guides and other hunters, and feel confident that I can do what I am looking to accomplish, but I am coming to you all because this is a traditional hunting forum, question and intent. This particular gun has significant relation to me, which is why my .54 will not be used, as it is smoothbore anyway, that is for swan and waterfowl, and local deer/turkey. Thank you again, and I remain receptive to any other information you, or anyone else would care to share.

 

[mdtrekker]

Merry Christmas to me, thanks for the info on the mould. Watch out woodswalk shooters, here I come. Appreciate it.

 

[steve nagy]

I think that the load you reference would work; however, you need to reconcile what you consider a successful shot? I think it would kill a bison but not immediately or quickly unless you can make a brain shot. I am firmly in the camp of the front shoulder or neck shot for "drop'em right thar" death. I would not want to rely on a 177 grain ball for the extreme of hunting such, e.g, bison or brown bear.

 

[mdtrekker]

I consider a successful shot placement as a shot in the vitals, that will inevitably end in death. I know it will not be a drt shot unless I spine him, a brain shot ruins the skull. A solid lung shot, will do any animal in, just want it to get good penetration, so I will work with the 100 grain and even more to find the right combo that will keep me accurate.

 

[mdtrekker]

what about using a 495 or 509 round ball vs. the 490? any difference?

 

[paulvallandigham]

I would not try to shoot a Buffalo with a 177 grain PRB out of a .50 cal. rifle. These are big animals. If you could precisely hit them in the spine, or neck behind the head, at under 50 yards, the .50 might work well. But, I think a RB of .58 caliber or greater is needed on game as large as Buffalo.

Conicals are another matter entirely different. I would not hesitate to use my .45-70 and a lead bullet, or a modern jacketed soft point bullet to shoot buffalo. But we are talking about bullets that weigh at least 430 grains( CorBon) and heavier. With those heavy slugs, I would be confident in taking a buffalo from one hundred yards and beyond.

Even if the guides could assure me of a shot inside 50 yds, this is one game animal where I would be inclined to use hard cast balls, for deeper penetration. I do think that if a .50 PRB is is properly loaded, it can take Elk, Moose, and Caribou, within range limits.

 

[larry wv]

Do your self and the Bison A favor and use a conical in the .50 cal. A bigger caliber would help. But since you are set on the 50 at least give your self some room for error and use some more lead. A Bison is a heck of a lot BIGGER and HARDER to kill than a whitetail. Some guides will tell you what you want to hear instead of what you need to hear. I think you are set on a prb and are going to use one regardless. If so use your 54 it should be able to get a lung hit at 50 yards or more. larry Wv

 

[Walks with fire]

Flinter! You will never be the same Ron.

 

[Herb]

In the March, 2009 Muzzle Blasts magazine there is an article by Don Kettlekamp, "Hunting With a Patched Round Ball". (I went to high school with Don at Monona, Iowa). He has hunted in Africa, Australia, Alaska and many other places, game including elephants and rhinoceros. This with muzzleloaders and round balls. His loads with a .50 Lancaster flint are 90 grains of Goex 2F and a friend with a percussion rifle used 100 grains of Goex 2F. He lists their velocities as 1546 fps and 1604 fps.

Two of my .50 rifles with 38" Rice barrels and 80 grains of Goex 2F, a flintlock gave me 1780 fps for 15 shots and a percussion gave me 1728 fps for 10 shots. I don't have my chronograph book handy for heavier loads.

Lymans "Black Powder Handbook and Loading Manual, 2nd Edition", shows maximum loads of Goex 2F and a .490 roundball as being 120 grains at 1991 fps and with Goex 3F, also 120 grains at 2045 fps.

I think you should load up to these maximum loads if you are comfortable with it. Accuracy good enough to hit a basketball (heart-lung area) is sufficient, unless you blow patches. Then an overpowder wad will likely cure that problem. Better to humanely kill an animal with a load that will hit a softball at your range rather than perhaps only wound one with a load that would have hit a ping pong ball. Bison and elk are really big animals.

Don't hit any big bones and don't take any neck shots (except perhaps the base of the skull- which is a very chancy shot). A lung shot will kill a bison in time, but your guide better have his pickup handy to haul you out of the way in the meantime. They should have some strong advice to give you on this subject. It takes a lot of conviction to limit your shots to 75 yards, but the closer the better. Good luck on that!

 

[roundball]

"...Don Kettlekamp, "Hunting With a Patched Round Ball"......He has hunted in Africa, Australia, Alaska and many other places, game including elephants and rhinoceros. This with muzzleloaders and round balls. His loads with a .50 Lancaster flint are 90 grains of Goex 2F and a friend with a percussion rifle used 100 grains of Goex 2F. He lists their velocities as 1546 fps and 1604 fps.

Don and I are members of a Trap & Skeet club here and have discdussed his African trips at length...I wanted to be sure the way the above part of the post is written that it's not misunderstood.

Don does not use a .50cal for large african game...he's used a 4 bore and patched round ball on the African trips he's told me about

 

[Herb]

Thanks, Roundball. Don listed the .50 for whitetail deer only and his friend's .50 for black bear. He listed 15 different rifles with calibers up to .92 for elephant. This is a really good article, perhaps it can be found on the magazine's web site.

A good example of what MLs can do is his friend Bradley Martin's kill of a dall sheep at 160 yards with a patched round ball with 200 grains of Goex FFg powder from a .75 underhammer rifle.

Don gives examples of calibers suited to game size. For the .54 caliber he and his son Jon use 140 grains of Goex FFg for bison and African plains game. I have also used this load but hunt with 120 grains.

 

[roundball]

And I totally agree on the effectiveness of the traditional lead round ball...just match the caliber to the game and its all that's needed.
:thumbsup:

 

[BrownBear]

Here in Alaska and especially in Canada, many folks shooting moose prefer to use balls cast from wheelweights rather than lead to limit expansion for better penetration. They're using larger cals than 50 for the most part, though.

If I was taking on a buff with a 50, I'd surely use wheelweight balls. They're going to cast slightly smaller than pure lead from the same mold, and just might require a different patch for best accuracy.

I've got them in the rack, so if I was taking on a buffalo I'd reach for a 54 or 58 instead, though. And just like Roundball, my not goes to the 58. But even with it, I'd be dodging large bones in choosing my shot.

 

[larry wv]

Like Roundball said match the caliber to the game. Some people think I am against the prb. Thats not so. The prb works good as long as the caliber is big enough for the game being hunted :v . Larry Wv

 

[longcruise]

so what would you recommend for a 50 cal? larger ball, heavier powder? This is the input I am looking to get to evaluate conditions.

I should have been more specific. My answer is pretty much "none of the above". I think a .50 round ball load is light for buff regardless of how you load it. To kill the buff you are going to want to send your ball all the way across the chest to puncture both lungs. You have been advised to be careful with your shot placement, eg., don't hit major bones etc. That's not always going to work out as planned. The front shoulder of a buff is different from a deer or elk. The bones are much heavier and configured differently. You need to know that your gun is going to be able to go through the toughest spot on the shoulder and still take both lungs. Anything less is undergunned.

Now, if it is the typical fenced pasture buff hunt it won't matter. You can just follow it around and keep shooting til it's dead. Heck, you could do that with a .36.

 

[hanshi]

:hmm: Eeeeh...cept maybe a swamp boojum. :idunno:

 

[larry wv]

Good one Marmotslayer :thumbsup: . Larry