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500 meter rams vs 50 cal. prb's.....

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Skychief

69 Cal.
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
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The hills of Southern Indiana
With my T/C Hawken and a load of 80 grains ffg, .490 prb (sighted dead on at 100 yards), how high would I have to hold on a 500 meter target? Before you think I have lost my mind :youcrazy: , I ask this because my friends and I were taking such shots at a friend's farm/range. Many of my buddies were hammering the steel ram with their Sharps, so some of the roundball men had to try as well (to little avail) :rotf: .

Are there any trajectory gurus available please? :thumbsup:
 
I don't know the answer to our question but about 12 years ago at the NRA Whittington Center near Raton, NM I've witnessed hits on a life-size buffalo using the 50/140 Sharps w/ long range Vernier tang sights. The buffalo sihlouette was on a hill above the 500 meter steel sihlouette range. I was told, if I recall correctly, that the buffalo was 1300 yards distant, about 3/4 mile.
With good sights I'll bet you could do in a 500 meter steel ram....sure would be fun to try!
 
Oatsayo,
Every rifle is a bit different and drop is varied by ball size, patch size and powder load.
Of course with Silk you can get 40 extra yards. (Sorry Couldent resist) :grin:
Ive never charted out to that range but with a 100yrd zero the average drop for a .50 cal PRB with 90 grains FF is in the range of 25 inches. Drop off is dramatic with BP ball.
I would imagine that at 500 yards the drop would be well over 6-7 feet. Of course you could hype up the powder charge and change that.
It would still be quite a shot. "Pop" thats the sound of hollywoods bubble bursting. :wink:
 
Just as a wild guess, you will probably need to aim about 30-40 feet high. :hmm:

I do know, from experience, that a 54 cal ball pushed by 120 gr of powder will drop about 4 feet at 200 yards, just as a point of reference.

I suggest picking out a prominent point of reference, like a tree limb or rock outcropping at different heights above or behind the target, as an aiming point to lob 'em in.

You will probably need a spotter to locate dust kicked up by the balls impact, so's you can walk 'em in.

Be aware that at a range of 500 meters is approaching 550 yards. That's a loooooonnnnnnnnnggggg way to shoot a RB gun.

Should be fun though.
God bless,
J.D.
 
Guessing your velocity at 1800 fps, Lyman's Black Powder Handbook, volume I, with a 50 yard zero shows a drop of 4.07 at 100 yards and 137.44 inches at 300 yards. Adjusting for a 100 yard zero, this trajectory is raised 4 inches per 100 yards, or 12 inches at 300 yards, giving about a 10 foot drop at 300 yards. Try holding 30 feet over and if there is any wind at all, like 30 feet into the wind!
 
It can be done - at the first NAPR Rendezvous in 1973 several roundball shooters either hit or scared the heck out of a 24" plowshare gong set up at 520 yards - this was Ed Webber's (our host) Sharps range - being a new roundball shooter at the time he was surprised. Luckily there was little wind which would definitely had made a difference
FWIW - those with 54's did the best and 25-30' feet was the estimated drop
 
watch out guys...... the more you shoot long range the more you want to do it! been there and done got myself addicted!
 
Maybe stick the butt in the ground and give the barrel about 40 degrees elevation shoot er Mortar style :rotf:
 
The problem with shooting at those long distances with any RB is that it loses velocity so fast, and the trajectory is so high, that if your sights are off only a very little-- tenths of an inch- you can miss the target. The Ball is coming down on the target at a very steep angle at that distance, and at that well-under-1,000-fps velocity, accurate range estimation is so essential that any mistake will have the ball hit short, or go over the target. And, of course, others have already mentioned the winds. Its bad enough to shoot on a semi-sheltered long range, with wind flags telling you about the "GROUND WINDS" between you and the target. When the Ball has to go 3 stories into the air to reach the target, you really need to have a 30 foot post out at the target, and at each 100 yard interval, to give you any idea about what the "UPPER" winds are doing out there.

Yeah, I have been fortunate enough to be out shooting on a " dead calm" day-- you know, Not a cloud in the sky, and not a hint of a breeze. But, boy are those days rare.

I recall hunting one cold December morning after a snow front had come through. High Pressure from Canada sat right over Illinois. There was no wind. Not until you got about 500 feet up in the air. I could see steam coming out of a chimney in town, about a mile away, and the steam rose straight up until it hit that 500 foot level, where it exited "staged right"-FAST. I was bird hunting, so it had No effect on my hunting that day. However, I can't remember hunting another day when it was that calm, in my life!
 
Why are we saying meters rather than yards.
Like speaking English vs Espanol. I know
I could make the conversions but why should I
have to.
snake-eyes :confused:
 
With my T/C Hawken and a load of 80 grains ffg, .490 prb (sighted dead on at 100 yards), how high would I have to hold on a 500 meter target?

I ran this through Point Blank using 1800 fps, 100 yard sight in at 500 meters. According to PB, you will have to hold 69.33 feet over the rams back. Remaining velocity of about 356 fps and 50 ft lbs energy.

That of course relys on the accuracy of PB at such long ranges. Who knows? :)

I can tell you that my .54 at about 1650 fps will knock rams down at 200 meters about 1 out of four hits. Sometimes less. Soooo, keep your ears tuned for that 500 meter hit cause it's the only way you will know. :)
 
Well Skychief, based on Marmotslayer's calculations, you might want to increase the weight of your powder charge...ALLOT :bow: :grin:
 
Just to add fuel to the fire. I hope you have a set of long range sites on your RB rifle. If not you will have half a barrel sticking up above your rear sight and will not be able to see your target. Yes a good spotter is a must. With a good scope he will be able to see the ball in the air just before impact and call your shot.
Shooting a sharps my spotter could call my shots within inches at 500 meters.
Fox :thumbsup:
 
snake-eyes said:
Why are we saying meters rather than yards.
Like speaking English vs Espanol. I know
I could make the conversions but why should I
have to.
snake-eyes :confused:
The NRA uses meters, not yards for the silhouette ranges. I don't know what the history behind this is, I know the whole metallic silhouette game started in old Mexico many years ago, maybe that's why.
 
You are correct. The Silhouette game for rifles started in Mexico, and we took the metric measurements for our courses, too. For the most part, new ranges had to be constructed for this game. A few old National Guard armory ranges that were 600 yds. long were adapted to the sport, too.

The NRA pistol silhouette course does use Yardages, 100 yds., and reduced sized targets. This was done because the overwhelming NRA Charter Club Ranges were measured in yards, and 100 yds. was the most common "Long range " existing across the country. There is also a small bore rifle Silhouette course that shoots out to 100 yds., again sponsored by the NRA.
 
Skychief said:
With my T/C Hawken and a load of 80 grains ffg, .490 prb (sighted dead on at 100 yards), how high would I have to hold on a 500 meter target? Before you think I have lost my mind :youcrazy: , I ask this because my friends and I were taking such shots at a friend's farm/range. Many of my buddies were hammering the steel ram with their Sharps, so some of the roundball men had to try as well (to little avail) :rotf: .
Are there any trajectory gurus available please? :thumbsup:



With a BC of. 070 and 1900 fps zeroed at 100 yards a 490 rb is 111 ft (1334 inches)low at 500 by my ballistics program. Remaining velocity is 192.
Not sure its correct but bet its close. Once past 200-300 yards they REALLY drop.
A Sharps with a heavy bullet will fall over 1000 inches to 1000 yards and they are far, far more efficient than the RB.
If you look on the WWW you may find a ballistics calculator.

Remember that in actual testing years ago a friend found that a 54 RB could not be made to travel 1000 yards regardless of elevation.

Only sure way is to try it.
I would start with 50 ft of hold over and see if you can find a bullet strike. Dust plumes from 50 caliber RBs are very small even at 300 yards. So you need someone with a spotting scope and a dry day.


Dan
 
marmotslayer said:
With my T/C Hawken and a load of 80 grains ffg, .490 prb (sighted dead on at 100 yards), how high would I have to hold on a 500 meter target?

I ran this through Point Blank using 1800 fps, 100 yard sight in at 500 meters. According to PB, you will have to hold 69.33 feet over the rams back. Remaining velocity of about 356 fps and 50 ft lbs energy.

That of course relys on the accuracy of PB at such long ranges. Who knows? :)

I can tell you that my .54 at about 1650 fps will knock rams down at 200 meters about 1 out of four hits. Sometimes less. Soooo, keep your ears tuned for that 500 meter hit cause it's the only way you will know. :)


What did you use for a BC? Its under .07 according to Lyman.

Dan
 
J.D. said:
Well Skychief, based on Marmotslayer's calculations, you might want to increase the weight of your powder charge...ALLOT :bow: :grin:

Will do little good to exceed 100 grains of FFFG, especially if the barrel is short. Once past a certain point velocity gains drop off pretty rapidly for grain of powder added.

Dan
 
LaBonte said:
It can be done - at the first NAPR Rendezvous in 1973 several roundball shooters either hit or scared the heck out of a 24" plowshare gong set up at 520 yards - this was Ed Webber's (our host) Sharps range - being a new roundball shooter at the time he was surprised. Luckily there was little wind which would definitely had made a difference
FWIW - those with 54's did the best and 25-30' feet was the estimated drop

Don King later tried to get on the same gong at 1000 but the balls would not go that far. Don said he was holding well up on the rock face somewhere at 500.
The problem with most ballistic programs is that they are designed for HV stuff.
Used to hit this gong 2-3 out of 5 with a 44-40 SA Colt back about 1981 once the hold over was determined.

Dan
 
marmotslayer said:
I ran this through Point Blank using 1800 fps, 100 yard sight in at 500 meters. According to PB, you will have to hold 69.33 feet over the rams back.
Actually, I don't think you're 69.33 feet POA is too far off. Shot my .50 GPR at lasered 596 yds with .490 PRB and 90 gr Goex 3f and missed it left about 6 feet, elevation was good. I forgot to dope the wind, but did aim at the second cloud above the target.
 

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