.50cal Flintlock - Velocity Tests

[roundball]

05/31/08 VELOCITY TESTS - .50cal Flintlock

T/C Hawken 15/16” x 32” Flint barrel
1:66” round ball twist
.018" T/C NL1000 pillow ticking
Hornady .490” / 180grn lead balls
Wiped the bore after every shot
Pact Pro MK5 Chronograph at 15 feet
Goex powder charges
Average velocity rounded off to nearest 5 fps

30grns 3F = 980 fps
40grns 3F = 1120 fps (+140)
50grns 3F = 1260 fps (+140)
60grns 3F = 1360 fps (+100)
70grns 3F = 1440 fps (+80)
80grns 3F = 1525 fps (+85)
90grns 3F = 1600 fps (+75)
100grns 3F = 1685 fps (+85)

100grns Goex 2F (FFg) = 1565 fps (120 fps slower than 100grns 3F)[/color]

PLUS
.50cal / 22grn SOLID RUBBER PRACTICE BALL
50grns Goex 3F = 1450 fps
100grns Goex 3F = 1885 fps

 

[410-er]

THANKS RoundBall!Doesn't look like alot of fps difference between FFg and FFFg.

 

[roundball]

THANKS RoundBall!Doesn't look like alot of fps difference between FFg and FFFg.

Well, everything is relative so I don't know what you thought the difference might be or what would be significant...but for me I think a difference of 120 fps is fairly significant...about 10%.

100grns Goex 2F (FFg) = 1565 fps is 120 fps slower than 100grns 3F

 

[spugnoid]

These rubber practice balls, can you shoot them in the house?

 

[roundball]

These rubber practice balls, can you shoot them in the house?

They are actually made to be used at law enforcement training centers in special "firearms" that are designed to look just like a 45cal auto and an M16, etc...the "firearms operate on air pressure like paintball guns.

The law enforcement training includes using them inside building as part of their practice sessions, so in that regard, you can draw the conclusion they could be used in a building.

HOWEVER...shooting indoors with a muzzleloader would require that you have an exhast system about like a jet engine or after a couple shots you wouldn't be able to breathe or see, and with the stink that would creep into the walls, furniture, carpeting, etc, you'd end up divorced :grin:

 

[Birddog6]

HOWEVER...shooting indoors with a muzzleloader would require that you have an exhast system about like a jet engine or after a couple shots you wouldn't be able to breathe or see, and with the stink that would creep into the walls, furniture, carpeting, etc, you'd end up divorced :grin:

That would all depend on if she was shooting with you......... or at you !! :rotf: :rotf:

 

[Dalekg6]

Interesting. I tested my new flintlock rifle for velocity and accuracy last week. I have a 36" Green mountain barrel with a 1/70 twist. Using a .490 ball with pillow ticking and Leigh Valley lube I got about 250 fps more velocity with the 3F loads. I got about the same difference (120-140) between 3F and 2F as you did. I was also using Goex.

It's interesting how all the little differences add up. My barrel is longer, I didn't wipe between shots and my chronograph might have been a little closer. All that plus just being a different barrel seem to add up to over 250 fps or 30 grains worth of powder difference.

Dale

 

[roundball]

Interesting. I tested my new flintlock rifle for velocity and accuracy last week. I have a 36" Green mountain barrel with a 1/70 twist. Using a .490 ball with pillow ticking and Leigh Valley lube I got about 250 fps more velocity with the 3F loads. I got about the same difference (120-140) between 3F and 2F as you did. I was also using Goex.

It's interesting how all the little differences add up. My barrel is longer, I didn't wipe between shots and my chronograph might have been a little closer. All that plus just being a different barrel seem to add up to over 250 fps or 30 grains worth of powder difference.

Dale

Yes, my 33" barrel readings have been even lower than TC's 28" barrel data charts in both my .45 and .50cals but thought their charts may have been built with a caplock.

I had made a mental note that after I finished my main work today I'd move the chronograph back clser and closer until the smoke started causing weird readings...to see what velocity differences it might make at 8-9 feet...had read something somewhere that even out at 15 feet there would be a noticeably lower reading than at the muzzle but forgot to do it...range is closed for a few weeks now so it'll be a month before I can do any more testing

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here.

When I ran some preliminary tests with an Ohler 35p chronograph several weeks ago I noticed some eye opening readings within each 10 shot string.

I swabed between each shot as I do while shooting at the club, with the same patch for roughly 4 to 5 shots. What I noticed was that with each successive shot the velocity rose as much as 65fps above the previous shot until I swabed with a new patch, with a "fresh" barrel the velocity dropped off and then it repeated the climb as I re-used the same patch.

I am leaning towards swabing between each shot as being very inconsistent as far as muzzle velocity is concerned, unless you use a fresh cleaning patch each time with the identical amount of cleaning solution on each patch and can repeat the barrel conditions each time.

Also the size of the vent will have an effect on velocity as well.

These are just my observations that I thought would add to the tests.

When the weather breaks around here I will get out and do some more chrono shooting and try to get more consistent results.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

I also feel that quality of equipment can play a part here as the Pact is fairly close to the Ohler in quality, my screens are 4' apart though.

I am shooting thru a 38" barrel and getting about the same averages as you are, I ran a test on 45gr and 60gr and am real close to the averages you posted.

 

[roundball]

I also feel that quality of equipment can play a part here as the Pact is fairly close to the Ohler in quality, my screens are 4' apart though.

I am shooting thru a 38" barrel and getting about the same averages as you are, I ran a test on 45gr and 60gr and am real close to the averages you posted.

The Pact 'sensors' attach in preset positions on the ends of a 2 foot bar that comes with it so I know the spacing is correct.

And when I first set it up just to figure out how it worked, I used a S&W .22cal revolver to test with and got almost 1000 fps with a .22 LR out the 6" barrel, which I figure is pretty darn close to what it should be.

And I used a fresh pre-dampened cleaning patch after each shot, shot 5 shot strings, and had very low SD, in some case would get the same reading 2 out of 5 times, the only difference being the 10ths.

Was just surprised it was lower than TC's data charts...although I used flintlocks with a large 5/64" vent, and they probably used caplocks.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

The Ohler was the same way as far as the screen spacing goes, it came with a 2' and a 4' rod with pre-set dimples, I chose to use the 4' rod as the Ohler has a middle screen so that it double checks the velocity.

As far as distance from the muzzle I would be more concerned about an errant patch and less about the smoke, I placed my screens as far as the cables would allow, about 15' and still found a patch laying on top of the first screen.

Just to give you an idea of the variances this is from the 60gr load of Goex, .495 poured lead ball, .18 pillow tic with a moose milk variant.

1st 1327 (this was a dry barrel)
2nd 1149 (fresh patch)
3rd 1325 (same patch)
4th 1360 ( " " )
5th 1369 ( " " )
6th 1397 ( " " )
7th 1426 ( " " )
8th 1431 ( " " )
9th 1280 (fresh patch)
10th 1341 (same patch)


I went and rounded up my paperwork and realized that I was a bit off on my statement about a 65fps increase per shot, but the increase is unmistakable.

Was just surprised it was lower than TC's data charts...although I used flintlocks with a large 5/64" vent, and they probably used caplocks.

I found this all the time with published center fire data, I could never reach published velocities within safe documented loads. I agree that T/C went off of cap locks, and a 5/64" is a tad larger than the .62 vent I am using.

 

[roundball]

I guess the gradual fouling buildup increases the resistance / backpressure resulting in a higher velocity...like a rifled bore has a higher velocity than an equivalent smoothbore...BUT, I'm very surprised at the amount of the velocity jumps you listed just by reusing a patch...never would have guessed that would have happened to that degree.

"...I would be more concerned about an errant patch and less about the smoke..."

Good point...I'll leave it at the end of the 15 foot cables as well.

 

[Dalekg6]

Hi again,

I just checked my notes. I did not swab between shots but I did swab between different powder charge weights. Firing three shot strings, most of the time, but not always, velocity went up with each shot. Even with that the extreme spread of velocities averaged 27fps with 2F and 29fps with 3F. The largest difference of 8 different shot strings was 59fps. On that one I think I short charged the first shot, it was slow, the next two shots were only 12fps apart.

I was using a Chrony beta master. I didn't measure how far away I put it. It was just at the edge of the dirt drop off in front of the shooting benches. Maybe 11 or 12 feet. It seemed far enough as I had good consistent readings all day.

I also shot my 58 cal double rifle the same day. I fired 4 shot groups with it, two from each barrel. The right barrel averages slightly faster. The second shots from each barrel averaged slightly slower than the first shots.

Oh well, that's what keeps it interesting.

Dale

 

[thewho66]

Ive said this to round ball before we were all rudely interupted by the crash. Thank you for taking the time to put the informaion out there. It gives me at least a refernce point to go by when working up a load. So if i ever get to go deer hunting I know that 10grains more powder should give me around 100fps gain.( Im generalizing the gain) Now would someone point out the broad side of a barn since switching to flinch lock thats about all I can hit.

 

[F.G. Ford]

No matter what type of firearm you are consistancy is important.
Whether it is for groups, or velocity (which in turn affects groups)
All serious bench rest shooters go through the same procedures to get constant groups.
Old Ford

 

[roundball]

Getting this chronograph going has opened up a whole new chapter of interesting things to do and learn. Funny thing is it hasn't been out of the box since I bought it back in 2000 to check velocity on hand loads for CF rifles & pistols...but that was the same time that I bought my first Flintlock and everything else has been on the back burner since :grin:...fast forward 8 years and I'm finally using it...on Flintlocks.

I did notice that leaving it turned on during all the time involved with wiping/reloading muzzleloaders, the 9 volt battery life becomes an issue keeping everything energized all that time...first shows up with shots in a string starting to get slower and slower, and sure enough, the owner's manual mentions that...replacing the battery fixes that immediately.

So I ordered/just received a "9 volt battry eliminator" to use in the future so I don't have to worry about battery drain...will be able to run full strings with several functions turned on and then print out the results...be the end of June before I can use that range agin, and will test the .54cal.

 

[roundball]

You got that right :grin:

 

[kevthebassman]

end of June before I can use that range agin, and will test the .54cal.

Aaaaw, man! I was really wanting to hear the .54 results. Maybe you could pack that chrony up and send it on out to me, and I'll test the .54 for you? :haha: :haha:

 

[Leatherbark]

FWIW
I ran similar test with my Blue Ridge 50 flintlock with Goex and Swiss 3f a few months ago.......Swiss 3f would add 200 fps to similar charges of Goex 3f..........At almost twice the price................Bob