50cal Hard cast balls?

[Black Hand]

Another advantage of using pure lead is that the density is relatively consistent from batch to batch. Alloys may very widely and each batch of roundballs would need to be tested to ensure the POI has not changed in any significant way.

Experiment if you wish, by all means.

 

[Skychief]

I have a CVA 50cal mountian rifle and was looking at using something harder then pure lead balls. Does anyone know if some one preduces a harder ball? Just getting started and don't have tools to cast my own ammo. Might be using on moose and could use the penetration.

Steven, first, welcome to the forum. :thumbsup:

I believe if I were to go after moose with a fifty, I'd want a harder ball too. As you say, for penetration's sake.

I have used alloyed roundballs for deer hunting though dead soft lead works fine for them too. These were .45 caliber.

I recall a big nanny doe that I took with one years ago. The ball hit her in the lower neck as she was quartered real hard toward me. It went through the neck, lungs, diaphragm, intestines and exited through a back ham. A dead soft ball would not have done this. So, again, a harder ball from your .50 will give you a better chance of hitting more "goodies" than a softer one.

I can also tell you that accuracy with harder balls is right on par with softer ones from what I've seen, and I've been paying attention too.

As far as finding any, if you dont cast your own....Are there any blackpowder clubs nearby you? Maybe a member could whip you up some.

If not, maybe someone here will help you out. If I had the mould for it, I'd cast you some and send them to you.

In any case, good luck and hope this information helps you out.

Best regards, Skychief

 

[Gene L]

How much weight do you lose in casting alloys? I would assume they're lighter, which gains you a bit in velocity but loses a bit in mass.

Got to be a law of diminishing returns at work here somewhere.

 

[mooman76]

Depends on the alloys and how much. I'd have to weight some but I'd guess just a few grains. Also depends on ball size. I speaking like 94-98% lead which is the norm for alloyed lead.

 

[Gene L]

Here's an article on casting bullets using alloys and lead, too. While not specific to ML, lead is lead and alloys are alloys. You might find it helpful.

Linotype is 84% lead, the rest being tin and antimony (not in that order) so a 16% reduction in a ball cast using a similar alloy could be significant.

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm

 

[Sjfriend]

I'd like to thank everyone for their input.

Here is my thinking: I know pure lead would be good (as proven by many a dead animals) but moose hides are much thicker and ribs much heavier then a whitetail/mule deer. Modern ammo opens mostly just after impact so the energy is spent mostly inside, not trying to push thru the hide. If a pure lead ball flattens upon impact, more of its energy on such large game would be lost just getting thru the hide / ribs would it not?

I want expansion for the damage, just not so fast as to lose all penetration on larger animals.

All this being said, I know I'll have to limit shots so may be more of a toss up any way. I also hunt with archery so I'm used to it. 2 moose harvested so I know ML will do the trick.

As a newbee, just trying to get all my PRBs in a row.

 

[nhmoose]

Moose I shot with a 54rb flintlock could not keep the ball in their chests. Balls were pure lead. A fifty would do the same. moose hide 1/4 to 3/8 at best. They are not like African animals.

 

[Black Hand]

If a pure lead ball flattens upon impact, more of its energy on such large game would be lost just getting thru the hide / ribs would it not?

My experience with pure lead roundballs is the entrance hole is ball-sized and the exit hole (if there is one) is larger. This suggests what you say is not entirely accurate and that ALL the energy is expended inside the animal. I've had a .54 roundball go through both shoulders and the spine and come to a stop just under the hide on the opposite hide (whitetail) - should easily go through one layer of Moosehide and a flimsy rib...

 

[tenngun]

Jus one question to toss around We know pure lead was what was shot in the old days around. Hmm. Much lead was produced from local sources. And lead grows naturaly with zinc, arsnic ect, the stuff we toss in to make it hard. I wonder if local galena was in fact, pure lead in the old days. Do you think they did the fingernail test on bars and pigs they bought. The old boys could be picky about powder, and the cloth to patch with, but I cant think of anything written about pure vs alloy until the great age of African hunting :idunno:

 

[Bo T]

My only though on the matter is, once you have a load developed for hunting moose, 50 or a hundred balls should last you close to a lifetime. As long as you don't waste them shooting chipmunks and squirrels. You can use other loads and balls for that.

 

[nkbj]

One of the beauties of round ball is how easy it is to make work whatever you got to work with.

 

[BrownBear]

One of the beauties of round ball is how easy it is to make work whatever you got to work with.

That's really it. You can only buy pure lead balls as far as I know, but for little more than the cost of 100 balls you can buy a LEE mold and turn out your own, whether pure or alloy. Whichever you choose, the biggest benefit of casting your own is really, really cheap shooting. Never figgered out the cost of electricity for my lead furnace, but I'm betting I can turn out several thousand balls from free lead for less than 100 commercial balls.

 

[stikshooter]

Modern center fire bullets goes extremely fast and utilizes jackets to limit expansion Violent with (thin jacketed) varmint bullets .Your round ball travels much slower so your pure lead ball expands well with less speed .At 75-80 yds my 54 cal punches thru bones/meat and to date stays in the animal often under the hide (off side) flattened ! Past that yardage the slower velocity allows the ball to pass thru do to ball not deforming .Try shooting the same ball at 100-125 yds you will get more penetration with less deformation / Ed

 

[coloradoclyde]

Never figgered out the cost of electricity for my lead furnace, but I'm betting I can turn out several thousand balls from free lead for less than 100 commercial balls.

I haven't actually measured it yet, but I figure two hours of operation would cost me about 33 cents...
Melting over a campfire would be free......

 

[tenngun]

One of the beauties of round ball is how easy it is to make work whatever you got to work with.

That's really it. You can only buy pure lead balls as far as I know, but for little more than the cost of 100 balls you can buy a LEE mold and turn out your own, whether pure or alloy. Whichever you choose, the biggest benefit of casting your own is really, really cheap shooting. Never figgered out the cost of electricity for my lead furnace, but I'm betting I can turn out several thousand balls from free lead for less than 100 commercial balls.

And the fact is running your own ball is just a lot of fun. We fiddle with stuff on an ml all the time, lubes and oils and patch thickness, wadding ball size ect ect, running ball is just another layer of fun.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I shoot a lot of steel targets and have shot both hard and soft lead.....Soft lead flattens out to about twice it's diameter....Hard lead flattens only slightly...often I recover balls that are flat on one side and round on the other, often they shatter....
Both hit with equal force....as hardness has no bearing on that aspect....

Hard balls are prone to ricochet...

pure lead was mined and prized for it malleable qualities.....Something hard lead doesn't have...

A hard lead ball can be difficult to pull if necessary.

Many shooters use wheel weights to cast balls....I think that is a waste of good lead ...Many center fire shooters would gladly trade soft lead for harder lead....a win for both parties.....

Shoot whatever makes you happy.... :v

 

[stubshaft]

Any metal you use to harden the lead will make the ball lighter. You might get more penetration at the expense of less expansion.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Any metal you use to harden the lead will make the ball lighter. You might get more penetration at the expense of less expansion.

I made some out of pure tin.....they were about 30% lighter....

Remember, force = mass x velocity....
A lighter projectile may give you a faster muzzle velocity but it also slows down quicker.

 

[Gene L]

Makes me wonder how our ancestors got through life without wheel-weights and hard lead balls. Must have been rough.

 

[BrownBear]

It was sure rough when they didn't have lead. I can relate.