54 cal vs. 50 cal

[buckarcher]

Hi, I am fairly new to the forum and muzzleloader hunting. I have a t/c renegade now but want something else. My plan is to buy a green mountain barrel and get a t/c hawken stock for it. My main concern is accuracy first, and knock down power second. I will be hunting whitetails in PA and can only use flintlock. I only want to use round ball with the gun. I appriciate any suggestions on whether I sould get a 50 or 54 cal, and should I get 1" or 15/16" barrel. I would like to be able to load it up for 100 yard shots if needed. I'm not sensitive to recoil, but do I need to worry about a barrel blowing up with to much powder? Thanks.

 

[Lonegun1894]

If your only targets will be deer at 100yds or less, then either .50 or .54 will work within those limitations. As you know, the .50 will use slightly less powder to do it along with a bit less lead. The .54 however will allow you to stretch your range slightly (assuming you can honestly hold well enough) and also give you slightly more power. The catch here is that with the vast majority of us here using traditional iron sights, most will tell you that 100 yds is as far as most people have any business shooting anyway. And when you throw in the trajectory we get with a ball as opposed to that of a modern bullet, I usually wont take a shot over 100yds either unless it is absolutely perfect conditions for it--and will try to get closer than 100yds if at all possible. I hunt mostly deer with the occasional hog when I get the opportunity, and have used both, and just to be honest, I haven't noticed a lot of difference between the two on deer or hog. The .54 seems to have more steam behind it when it exits, but the .50 does very well too so I dont think you will be disappointed with either. I personally prefer the .54, but I think that is partly due to my .50 being a caplock and my .54 being a flinter. Also, I can always load the .54 down, but can only load the .50 up so much before I get to the point where I should have just started with my .54 instead. One definite difference you will notice if you get a chance to shoulder them side by side is, assuming the same barrel diameter for both, that the .50 will weigh more than the .54 does. Mine are 15/16" barrels and I trust them comletely, but I can't comment as to the differences between them and the 1" as I haven't had one of those. In the end, pick whichever caliber you prefer and place your shots well.

 

[Stubert]

I have a .54 capper, The bigger ball will hold energy better at the expense of more powder and recoil. 100 yards is a long way with a ball.

 

[Trench]

I would go with the .54, but not for any advantage at 100yds when hunting. Shots that far are unrealistic unless you religeously practice at that range in hunting conditions. I messed up two 60yd shots with both elbows rested on a log this deer season with my .58 and I practice a lot shooting off-hand at 50 yds. You wouldn't think I'd miss a whole deer at that range, but I did....twice in one day.

I would get the .54 just because of the mass and the slightly bigger hole.

 

[Semisane]

For me it would be no contest - get the .54.

I have a 1" .54 GM percussion barrel on a TC Renegade stock and a 1" .58 GM percussion barrel on a TC Hawken stock. Both are excellent round ball shooters.

All TC Renegades take 1" barrels. TC Hawkens that were originally .45 or .50 caliber take 15/16" barrels and those that were .54 or .58 take 1" barrels. So the stock you use will determine which barrel diameter you need. As far as blowing up a 15/16" .54 GM barrel, you would really have to be trying to do that. It's not something I would even give a second thought to.

Your main problem will be finding a .54 GM IBS (Interchangeable Barrel System) barrel in flint. Percussion barrels are more readily available. You can send a percussion IBS barrel to GM and they will change out the breechplug for something like $40 plus the cost of the new plug and cost of shipping. It can get expensive when added to the original cost of the barrel.

 

[roundball]

My plan is to buy a green mountain barrel and get a t/c hawken stock for it.

I only want to use round ball with the gun.

50 or 54 cal, and should I get 1" or 15/16" barrel.

I would like to be able to load it up for 100 yard shots if needed.

Based on your description above and my own use of GM barrels in T/C Hawken stocks, my suggestion would be:

GM 15/16" x 32" x 1:70" drop-in Flint barrel for the Hawken.
Remember that T/C makes the Hawken stocks in two sizes:
15/16" for their .45/.50cal barrels...and...1" for their .54/.58cal barrels;
You'll need to be sure you get the 15/16" size of course.

You can go to T/Cs website at TCARMS.com and download their manual which also has load data charts in the back that go up to 120grns Goex 2F for the .54cal...its actual title is: "Shooting Black Powder Muzzleloading Firearms"

I deer hunt with my MLs set up in expectation of taking a (rare) 100yd shot and my favorite .54cal deer load in the T/C Hawken was:
90grns Goex 3F (or 100grns 2F)
.54cal Oxyoke prelubed 'wonderwad' over powder
.018" T/C pillow ticking patch
Hornady .530" ball

 

[excess650]

In that Pa doesn't allow small game to be shot with a .50, your rifle will be for big game regardless. The larger .54 will shed less quickly and isn't far behind in muzzle velocity. Having hunted in Pa I know that shots can be close or too far for a MLer. I would opt for the .54 for a roundball rifle for the extra oomph.

 

[Walks with fire]

I too am from PA. I shoot a .50 and take 1 deer a year with it usually; over many years. I have found that a .50 takes deer just fine but they always run quite a distance and very seldom leave a blood trail to follow. I generally won't go without snow on the ground just for that reason.

I don't know if a .54 would leave a better trail or not with identical impacts but I gotta think the larger diameter and heavier weight would help some at least. Trajectory and recoil would be reasonable for the .54. The problem is getting a flinter .54 barrel. As far as I know GM will not swap breech plugs reguardless of what it would cost. There are other machinists that will do it but you will need to ship your stock and barrel to them to do it. Ballpark cost is 100 bucks plus shipping both ways of course. It could be done yourself if you have the drill press, taps and such but the tooling will still cost you a little bit.

I would go 15/16" for a .54 but if I went to a 1" channel I would get a .58. I would also go with a Renegade stock for the 1" channel and a PA Hunter with the 15/16" channel. Rubber recoil pad stocks are 14.5" length of pull and steel plates are 13.5". The steel and rubber pads don't fit both stocks.

I myself would go .54 or .58 if I thought it would help with my blood trails. My .50 does the job of killing them just fine but you have to watch where they go after the shot and that can be a problem with no snow, multiple deer in the group and brush conditions. I hate searching for a deer that I know has taken a vital hit. I have tried conicals, bullets in a fast twist and roundballs. I prefer the roundball for PA deer hunting. I think I will go to a .58 soon just to find out about the blood trails.

 

[asbrown]

My personal do everything big game rifle is a Va. style capper with a 36" 15/16" green mtn .54. I shoot only roundball with up to 110/120 gr 3f. I accidently double balled once with 110gr with no damage whatsoever. Both balls made an oval on paper at 50yds. I think you go with as much bore as possible,as nothing replaces mass in a roundball gun. So, in a 15/16" .54 is the way to go.

 

[peter hawbaker]

Go .54, I am originally from PA, and still try to get back to hunt the flintlock season every year.
I have killed three deer with a .50 PRB and 12 with a .54 PRB. I am a firm believer in the .54 if shooting PRB, it definitely seems to hit harder, with shorter recovery distances. I have killed two deer with .54 PRB at over 100 yards.

My rig for years was a Renegade stock and lock with a 32 inch .54 Green Mountain flint barrel. Very accurate, but a bit heavy at 9+ pounds. If starting from scratch, I would go with a 15/16th barrel for a lighter gun. My current favorite rifle for deer hunting has a 36 inch swamped barrel in .54, it weighs just a shade over 7 pounds.

 

[BrownBear]

I have 50 cals in 15/16" and 1", as well as 54 cals in those diameters, all straight. I definitely prefer the weight and balance of the 15/16" 54 cal. A swamped barrel would be even better for my tastes I suspect, but you won't get one of those as a drop-in for a TC.

 

[nkbj]

My minority opinion is gonna be to find a neglected flinter Renegade and have it bored out to .60 smooth bore. The Renegade and the boring can be very inexpensive. A 5/8" gasket punch will make all the card wads you need. You will be able to whack deer with .570's or .575's at decent round ball distances and they will be seriously whacked. You can hunt small game with shot. And, the piece will handle very nicely with a shotgun butt and being well balanced. But, hey, that's just the way my mind works.

 

[cowpoke1955]

By the time you buy a new barrel and stock, why not look at a .54 Lyman GPR flinter? They are excellent round ball rifles and are very accurate out to 100 yards. Just a thought :v

 

[aeatwood]

Actually, make sure you measure the barrel just to be sure. My first Renegade was a .50 with a 15/16" barrel. I bought it used w/ a T/C receiver sight, and it handles well, and is nicely accurate w/ .490" PRB and pillow ticking patches. My next purchase was a 15/16" Hawken that now wears a 32" .54 GM barrel with the 1:70 twist. It is a real tack driver, and I'm thinking about getting a lower front sight and putting one of my spare receiver sights on it. I wound up buying another T/C .56 Smoothie and put a .32 15/16" GM barrel on it. My final GM is a 1" .58 on a Renegade, and it really shoots too. It doesn't wake up and shoot 'til you cross the 100gr 2F line. If I want to find a lighter load to target shoot with it I will probably have to drop back to 3F. I've thought a time or two about restocking it to fit me a bit better - the stock on that one feels a wee bit off, I much prefer an English sporter style for a rifle that kicks.

 

[ChrisHarris]

I have not killed a deer with a muzzleloader yet. Missed the season by a couple weeks this year. I do own a .54 caliber.

Look at the ballistics charts. When you're talking about a patched round ball -- the .54 delivers significantly more energy at 100yds than the .50 caliber. Larger surface area, heavier bullet. They just hit harder. At 10yds or 150yds. The .54 is going to hit harder. It's simple physics.

Don't look at a .54 and say to yourself, "It's only .04 hundredths bigger. How much more damage can it do?"

The answer is ...... A LOT MORE The bullet weight and downrange energy when a .54 hits is a TREMENDOUS step up from the energy and weight of a .50

All the testing has been done. Read any book or magazine where people discuss bullet weight and downrange energy. The comparison between .50 and .54 is not a new comparison. The work has been done. The studies are over.

The standing rule of muzzleloaders is ...... if you want more energy - get a bigger ball.

Want more knock down power? Get a .58

More? .62

Simple physics. Only way to get more punch out of a round ball is to go bigger.

 

[Semisane]

By the time you buy a new barrel and stock, why not look at a .54 Lyman GPR flinter? They are excellent round ball rifles and are very accurate out to 100 yards. Just a thought :v

That's what I would do. I have two TC Hawkens and three Renegades, all with GM barrels. But my .54 Lyman Great Plains Rifle flintlock balances and shoulders better for me than any of the TCs and sure shoots great.

 

[buckarcher]

Im really starting to like this place. A few hours and a ton of good advise. If green mountain wont sell a 54 flinter that will really hurt my feelings. I'll seeif i can contact them tomorrow. Everyone has t/c flinters around here and I can pretty much get any stock i need for the barrel. I'm pretty sold on a 54 in a 15/16" now.

My dad and brother both have Lyman gpr, and I like them except for the lock and the tiny flat faced touch hole bushing. Seems to take more time to go off and gets clogged up easy. But I guess thats what i may have to do.

I thought green mountain and t/c barrels were the same and you could unscrew the percusion breech and torque the flint breech on?

 

[Semisane]

My dad and brother both have Lyman gpr, and I like them except for the lock and the tiny flat faced touch hole bushing. Seems to take more time to go off and gets clogged up easy.

Tell your dad and brother to replace their Lyman liners with RMC liners and they will take you out to the best resturant in town in appreciation.

LOOK HERE: http://www.rmcoxyoke.com/inc/sdetail/84

 

[jethro224]

My main concern is accuracy first, and knock down power second.

Either caliber can be just as accurate as you can shoot after you take the time to work up the barrel's favorite load. I agree that accuracy should come first. A poor hit with either(any) caliber is still a poor hit.
The .54 does have more energy than a .50 and will carry a bit farther but either will poke a hole clear thru a whitetails ribcage easily.

I appriciate any suggestions on whether I sould get a 50 or 54 cal, and should I get 1" or 15/16" barrel. I would like to be able to load it up for 100 yard shots if needed. I'm not sensitive to recoil, but do I need to worry about a barrel blowing up with to much powder? Thanks.

My personal preference is the .54 but I own .50's too and have killed deer with both calibers out past 100 yards. My .50's like 70-75 grains and my .54's like 80-85 grains. That is plenty of powder to kill a deer. You should let the rifle tell you what load to use, each one will have it's own favorite load that shoots most accurately from that particular gun. Go with that. There should be no reason to need enough powder to blow up a gun.
1" or 15/16" depends on you and the gun. Balance is more important to me than weight. Some folks have a hard time holding or carrying a heavy gun.
Try to handle some different guns. Shoot them if possible. Go with what feels best to you.
The "Hawken" style rifles whack me in the cheekbone every time I shoot them with a hunting load. After a few shots it really starts to hurt.
The GPR fits me much better and I can shoot them all day with no pain at all. Some folks will tell you the same thing, others just the opposite. It's all about how you are built and how the gun fits you.
Try both if you can.

My dad and brother both have Lyman gpr, and I like them except for the lock and the tiny flat faced touch hole bushing. Seems to take more time to go off and gets clogged up easy. But I guess thats what i may have to do.

The touch hole can be fixed by drilling it out to 1/16" or 5/64" and, if you feel the need, carefully coning it with a larger sized drill bit. That is free and easy.
The lock geometry can be improved by placing an extra piece of thick leather under the flint to help raise it up. Also free.
A better fix is to install a new-style T/C cock, top jaw, and screw on the Lyman lock. Pretty cheap and make it much better. :thumbsup:

Whatever you decide to do, I hope you enjoy your new rifle and wish you success next deer season. :hatsoff:

 

[smoothy]

I'm going to step on some toes here, but......if deciding on American products vs foreign I'll go with American. If you can obtain a 54 cal flintlock barrel for your TC that would be my advice.