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My .54 Douglas does really well with .018 felt patch and .530 ball with 90 grains of 2F Goex.
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.54 Caliber Accuracy
- Thread starter Loyalist Dave
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No, normally I hunt with a 70 grain charge of 3Fg, and the ball normally passes through the deer, broadside, even out at 110 yards.
I started at 60 as that is the minimum, and figured to work up from there. When up to 70 or 80 grains, with the accuracy good, I'd then start with different types of lubes other than spit. The problem was, at the bare minimum, the accuracy went to manure at 50 yards.
So I haven't had time to go back out to the range on a day when it was dry.
As for the wind, the range is down in a hollow, and that day there was no wind... and it takes a pretty good front moving through to get any sort of breeze.
So I will try some of the suggestions, hopefully this weekend if it's dry...
LD
I started at 60 as that is the minimum, and figured to work up from there. When up to 70 or 80 grains, with the accuracy good, I'd then start with different types of lubes other than spit. The problem was, at the bare minimum, the accuracy went to manure at 50 yards.
So I haven't had time to go back out to the range on a day when it was dry.
As for the wind, the range is down in a hollow, and that day there was no wind... and it takes a pretty good front moving through to get any sort of breeze.
So I will try some of the suggestions, hopefully this weekend if it's dry...
LD
Herb
54 Cal.
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Bryon, what kind of critter, what range? I had this happen with my GRRW Leman .54 and a roundball and 120 grains of Goex 2F at 1830 fps velocity with a middle of the neck hit on a mule deer buck at about 90 yards. This was in the area I wrote about with my .58 flint plains rifle, my "Nine Buck Hollow". I searched for that ball with a metal detector three or four times but can't find it because of the brush. I learned not to shoot deer (or elk if I had a chance) in the neck. Am not shooting a .58 for more power, only because I built it as a flintlock for off-hand shooting in our local matches and it fits me so well, better than my Leman and two .54 Hawkens.
Hey loyalist Dave. I wouldn't be too worried with accuracy at 25 yds. However, the rifle needs to be really accurate at 50 from the start. Adjust your sights at 50 yards until you are hitting the middle of the plate. It's ok if your shot groups are a bit high or low of the bullseye at this point, they just need to be as centered as possible. In your case it seems as if the groups are a bit high. Obviously they are grouping high for a reason, but they are grouping which means your rifle is very accurate and consistent.
I use 3f powder in my 54 cal. no problems. Be aware that 3f powder in a larger caliber bore will add velocity, as well as trajectory, to your shot. It seems like the ball is beginning its ark at the 50 yd mark, which is why it's a bit high. Further, like you, I use 60 grains of 3f powder. I too, found that switching from 2f powder to 3f powder moved my groups a bit high because of the extra velocity. With 60 grains of 3f, you are actually shooting the equivalent of 70 grains of 2f. 3f is a lot hotter. You may want to try 60 grains of 2f and I guarantee that will place your shot groups more toward the bullseye. However, I shoot a bit high at the range, but 3f has never failed me on the hunt as I always shoot exactly where I mean to on an animal. It's weird,
I use 3f powder in my 54 cal. no problems. Be aware that 3f powder in a larger caliber bore will add velocity, as well as trajectory, to your shot. It seems like the ball is beginning its ark at the 50 yd mark, which is why it's a bit high. Further, like you, I use 60 grains of 3f powder. I too, found that switching from 2f powder to 3f powder moved my groups a bit high because of the extra velocity. With 60 grains of 3f, you are actually shooting the equivalent of 70 grains of 2f. 3f is a lot hotter. You may want to try 60 grains of 2f and I guarantee that will place your shot groups more toward the bullseye. However, I shoot a bit high at the range, but 3f has never failed me on the hunt as I always shoot exactly where I mean to on an animal. It's weird,
OK so on Sunday, I got a 3" group, at 12 o'clock, though about 8" high, using 70 grains of 3Fg, a .530 ball, and of all things, a grease patch of chamois. It loaded quite well, no real straining, so I think the problem is this barrel needs .535 ball as the chamois is kinda spongy and fits the grooves pretty well. Nice, distinct markings on the chamois showing each groove too. AND a new set of sights, 'cause at 8" that's still way too high. It was a used rifle, and my buddy couldn't get it to work worth a darn, so asked me to see what I could do with it.
I will try some 2Fg loads later this week to see if it drops down a bit, but I think the previous owner was probably "lobbing" rounds in at 100 yards at targets with a light load and set the sights for that.
LD
I will try some 2Fg loads later this week to see if it drops down a bit, but I think the previous owner was probably "lobbing" rounds in at 100 yards at targets with a light load and set the sights for that.
LD
thecapgunkid
40 Cal.
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Does the rifle crack or just bang when fired? The guys before me here have a lot of good advice, but when I broke in the rifle Nate McKenzie made for me I kept one load and played with ball and patch size until the thing sounded like a whip rather than the USS Arizona. In this case, a mite thicker patch with a mite smaller ball. Don't own no micrometers...
Then I dumbed my head down ( which did not take a lot of effort) to where an eighteenth century guy would have been without a lot of science behind him, cut off my bone measure and stuck with that one load.
I sighted at fifty FIRST, then twenty five or so.
Never had problems at fifty except for trigger jerking or flinching. Humiliating, because I couldn't blame the gun....
Don't shoot yore eye out kid,
The Capgun Kid
Then I dumbed my head down ( which did not take a lot of effort) to where an eighteenth century guy would have been without a lot of science behind him, cut off my bone measure and stuck with that one load.
I sighted at fifty FIRST, then twenty five or so.
Never had problems at fifty except for trigger jerking or flinching. Humiliating, because I couldn't blame the gun....
Don't shoot yore eye out kid,
The Capgun Kid
Do you want a hunting load/rifle or just a fun gun?
Really, "grease" and "chamois"?
Why are you screwing around? :shocked2:
Just use proven advice given here and shoot the rifle. Ticking, proven lube, proven charges, ball size the fits and works. Then SHOOT.
Really, "grease" and "chamois"?
Why are you screwing around? :shocked2:
Just use proven advice given here and shoot the rifle. Ticking, proven lube, proven charges, ball size the fits and works. Then SHOOT.
George said:
They both like X's. :wink:
When you hear the rifle "crack" you are hearing the ball or bullet breaking the sound barrier. If you hear a loud boom instead of a crack, the ball or bullet is traveling at subsonic speeds. The shot with the cracking sound travels much faster than the shot with a booming sound.
The crack is usually more accurate than the boom because the faster ball or bullet drops less than the slower one at any given distance. That becomes particularly noticeable as you reach out to 75 to 100-yards or more.
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
The crack is usually more accurate than the boom because the faster ball or bullet drops less than the slower one at any given distance. That becomes particularly noticeable as you reach out to 75 to 100-yards or more.
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
I understand about the crack being the ball going faster than the speed of sound, but I know of no reason that has anything to do with accuracy. It just means the ball is traveling faster than 1100 fps. Any ball traveling faster than 1100 fps, does that mean they are all accurate?
The usual description of how to use this "fact" is to keep adding powder until you hear the crack, and that's your most accurate load. You apparently don't even have to point the gun at a target, just listen for the crack and she's on the money.
In my opinion, this is another of those myths handed down with no reason behind it. It's true that the ball cracks, and that faster balls drop less, but those true facts don't add up to a logical whole which relates in any way to accuracy.
Spence
The usual description of how to use this "fact" is to keep adding powder until you hear the crack, and that's your most accurate load. You apparently don't even have to point the gun at a target, just listen for the crack and she's on the money.
In my opinion, this is another of those myths handed down with no reason behind it. It's true that the ball cracks, and that faster balls drop less, but those true facts don't add up to a logical whole which relates in any way to accuracy.
Spence
Hey George,
There are a lot of things that go into developing an accurate load. Velocity is just one of them. Any load that makes that crack will absolutely deliver the round ball to the 100-yard target with less drop than a load that goes boom. But drop is just one part of developing an accurate load.
The best way to find the most accurate load for your rifle is to go to the range and start shooting at a close target (12 to no more than 25 yards away). With a 50 cal. start with 50 grains of 3F black powder and fire 5 shots. Check the grouping and don't worry about placement yet. Then increase the load by 5 grains and shoot 5 more shots. After you get a good grouping, then you can adjust your sights for left/right placement. Don't worry about shooting low or high yet. Continue adding 5 grains until the grouping starts to open up. At that point the added velocity is no longer helping with accuracy. So back off by 5 grains and use that as your standard load. Odds are your load will be somewhere between 70 and 95 grains.
Now try shooting at the 50 yard target and see how your groupings look. They will probably be similar. Finally shoot at 100 yards and check your grouping there.
One inescapable fact about higher velocity round balls is that they drop less at 75 and 100-yards than a slower projectile. The ball actually drops at the same rate with all loads but because it gets out there much faster, you will see less drop at 75 and 100 yards with a high speed load (cracks) than you will with a low speed load (booms). Difference can be as much as a drop of 6 to 8 inches versus a drop of 4 to 6 feet with the slower ball.
Presuming your groups are pretty well centered, this is the point that you decide where you want to zero it in to. If you are only going to be making shots at 50-yards then it makes sense to zero it in at 50-yards. However, if you do that, and you need to make a longer shot, you will find that it drops drastically over the next 50-yards.
Wherever you decide to zero it in, be real sure about your decision before you start filing down the front sight to get it to zero. Once it's filed, you'll have to replace the sight if you want to zero it in at a shorter distance.
Personally, I've sighted my rifle in so it hits dead on at 100 yards. It shoots about 1" above the point of aim at 25-yards, 2" above the point of aim at 50-yards, and dead on at 100-yards. That way any shot I take within 100-yards my round ball will be within 2" of my point of aim. That's a killing shot as long as I do my part. One of my rifles likes 80 grains of 3f powder and the other likes 95 grains. I get between 1800 and 1900 fps out of those loads. It just depends on the barrel of your rifle.
A lot of people will shoot a little heavier load than the optimum load for accuracy when they are hunting because they want the extra energy at those 75 to 100-yard shots. The round ball bleeds off energy and speed like crazy and they'll sacrifice a little accuracy for the extra energy delivery to hopefully make a cleaner kill shot.
Some folks work up two different loads, especially if they are going squirrel hunting. Squirrel hunting is done at much closer ranges and most shots will probably be within 25 yards. so they shoot at a 25-yard target and typically use 1/2 the powder they would for big game at longer distances. At those short distances for small game, you don't need the heavier load to send the ball accurately only 1/4 to 1/3 the distance that you would need for deer hunting. And you certainly don't need the energy to kill a squirrel that you do to kill a deer. Plus, less powder means less $$ spent.
Here's a link to an online muzzleloader round ball ballistics calculator. You enter in the size of the ball (it automatically adjusts the weight) and the distance you want it zeroed in for and it tells you the results you can expect. Play around with that Muzzle Velocity (fps) and see what the differences are in drop. Take a look at the energy column too and you'll see how drastically the energy bleeds off by the time you reach 100 yards.
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/rbballistics/web_apps/rb_ballistics.html
You can download the program from their web site too from the page below. It allows you to print out copies and/or keep them in Word or Excel. Here's the link:
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/rbballistics/rbballistics.html
Hope this helps some,
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
There are a lot of things that go into developing an accurate load. Velocity is just one of them. Any load that makes that crack will absolutely deliver the round ball to the 100-yard target with less drop than a load that goes boom. But drop is just one part of developing an accurate load.
The best way to find the most accurate load for your rifle is to go to the range and start shooting at a close target (12 to no more than 25 yards away). With a 50 cal. start with 50 grains of 3F black powder and fire 5 shots. Check the grouping and don't worry about placement yet. Then increase the load by 5 grains and shoot 5 more shots. After you get a good grouping, then you can adjust your sights for left/right placement. Don't worry about shooting low or high yet. Continue adding 5 grains until the grouping starts to open up. At that point the added velocity is no longer helping with accuracy. So back off by 5 grains and use that as your standard load. Odds are your load will be somewhere between 70 and 95 grains.
Now try shooting at the 50 yard target and see how your groupings look. They will probably be similar. Finally shoot at 100 yards and check your grouping there.
One inescapable fact about higher velocity round balls is that they drop less at 75 and 100-yards than a slower projectile. The ball actually drops at the same rate with all loads but because it gets out there much faster, you will see less drop at 75 and 100 yards with a high speed load (cracks) than you will with a low speed load (booms). Difference can be as much as a drop of 6 to 8 inches versus a drop of 4 to 6 feet with the slower ball.
Presuming your groups are pretty well centered, this is the point that you decide where you want to zero it in to. If you are only going to be making shots at 50-yards then it makes sense to zero it in at 50-yards. However, if you do that, and you need to make a longer shot, you will find that it drops drastically over the next 50-yards.
Wherever you decide to zero it in, be real sure about your decision before you start filing down the front sight to get it to zero. Once it's filed, you'll have to replace the sight if you want to zero it in at a shorter distance.
Personally, I've sighted my rifle in so it hits dead on at 100 yards. It shoots about 1" above the point of aim at 25-yards, 2" above the point of aim at 50-yards, and dead on at 100-yards. That way any shot I take within 100-yards my round ball will be within 2" of my point of aim. That's a killing shot as long as I do my part. One of my rifles likes 80 grains of 3f powder and the other likes 95 grains. I get between 1800 and 1900 fps out of those loads. It just depends on the barrel of your rifle.
A lot of people will shoot a little heavier load than the optimum load for accuracy when they are hunting because they want the extra energy at those 75 to 100-yard shots. The round ball bleeds off energy and speed like crazy and they'll sacrifice a little accuracy for the extra energy delivery to hopefully make a cleaner kill shot.
Some folks work up two different loads, especially if they are going squirrel hunting. Squirrel hunting is done at much closer ranges and most shots will probably be within 25 yards. so they shoot at a 25-yard target and typically use 1/2 the powder they would for big game at longer distances. At those short distances for small game, you don't need the heavier load to send the ball accurately only 1/4 to 1/3 the distance that you would need for deer hunting. And you certainly don't need the energy to kill a squirrel that you do to kill a deer. Plus, less powder means less $$ spent.
Here's a link to an online muzzleloader round ball ballistics calculator. You enter in the size of the ball (it automatically adjusts the weight) and the distance you want it zeroed in for and it tells you the results you can expect. Play around with that Muzzle Velocity (fps) and see what the differences are in drop. Take a look at the energy column too and you'll see how drastically the energy bleeds off by the time you reach 100 yards.
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/rbballistics/web_apps/rb_ballistics.html
You can download the program from their web site too from the page below. It allows you to print out copies and/or keep them in Word or Excel. Here's the link:
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/rbballistics/rbballistics.html
Hope this helps some,
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:
Last edited by a moderator:
Because the advice so far didn't work when SHOOTING. Ticking, proven lube, proven charge, and proven ball size were already discussed, and the grouping was unacceptable at 50 yards and barely acceptable at 25. Which, I thought, had already been explained? I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.
LD
Read through what Greg Geiger wrote”¦ if I understand correctly, he said he played around with patch and ball size until the rifle started to crack, then, based on the sound, called that his accurate load, and never did any more load development.
I don't believe it works that way. As I said in my earlier post, I think the relationship of a cracking ball to accuracy is a myth passed down by people with little real understanding of the principles involved. Trust me, I can make a cracking ball miss any target ever invented. :grin:
Spence
I don't believe it works that way. As I said in my earlier post, I think the relationship of a cracking ball to accuracy is a myth passed down by people with little real understanding of the principles involved. Trust me, I can make a cracking ball miss any target ever invented. :grin:
Spence
I was taught the "crack" wasn't for accuracy... it was for performance. The load wasn't right for deer until the crack was heard, and it was the minimum for bear that way too.
LD
LD
Ah but we are talking about a rule used before they knew anything about the breaking of the speed of sound causing the crack. :haha:
LD
LD
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