54 problems

[kiph]

I have a Thompson Center 54 ca. black powder rifle. It does not have the word Renegade on the barrel. No matter what powder charge I use, round ball or maxi ball, rear sight adjustment up or down, it will shoot all consistently high 12 inches or better from a sand bagged rest using a six oclock hold at 50 yards. Pyrodex 2fg powder
from 50 gr to 90 gr. I am ready to use this as a boat anchor considering I have 2 other T/C rifles in 45 and 50 who print consistent 2 inch groups at 50 yards all day long. Someone please give me a solution.

 

[Celt5494]

Oh, I thought you had "54" problems so I came in to see all of them. Glad it's just narrowed down to one!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I have a Thompson Center 54 ca. black powder rifle. It does not have the word Renegade on the barrel. No matter what powder charge I use, round ball or maxi ball, rear sight adjustment up or down, it will shoot all consistently high 12 inches or better from a sand bagged rest using a six oclock hold at 50 yards. Pyrodex 2fg powder
from 50 gr to 90 gr. I am ready to use this as a boat anchor considering I have 2 other T/C rifles in 45 and 50 who print consistent 2 inch groups at 50 yards all day long. Someone please give me a solution.

Lots of questions then
Does it group, and it's just that the group is 12" high, or does it scatter shots and they all are 12" high?
Are you using round ball?
If you are using round ball, have you recovered and examined any of the patches? Can we see photos of them please?
Did the rifle start doing this behavior over time, OR did you obtain this rifle and found it shoots this way?
Has this rifle been coned?
Have you examined the crown at the muzzle?

LD

 

[Newly O’Brian]

A thought, are you placing the sand bag under the forearm or under the barrel and forcing it up?

 

[Indy Durtdigger]

To go with the barrel stuff Loyalist Dave brought up, how does it fit the stock? I.E. the hooked breach, is it hitting the lock, does it take any pressure to seat it? Usually, TC stuff is drop in and go but sometimes a stinker shows up or one someone else messed one up before passing their handiwork along.

 

[Newly O’Brian]

80 grs is a common pet load for prb 54s

 

[Eric Krewson]

I had an un-shot TC Tree Hawk that I bought at a flea market for $90 that shot high like that but grouped well, I ordered a taller sight for it from Midway USA and brough it back into line, the TALL sight looked odd but gave me a full adjustment range on the rear sight.

 

[Fastleo]

Just to be clear, you move the rear sight the direction you want to move the group. So if it’s shooting high you lower the rear sight.
If you want to lower the impact using the front sight you use a taller sight.

Are the sights on your rifle factory?

I’ve never not been able to zero a t/c muzzle loader using the factory sights. Maybe post some pictures of your rifle and maybe we can see something in the pictures that your missing.

 

[kiph]

Lots of questions then
Does it group, and it's just that the group is 12" high, or does it scatter shots and they all are 12" high?
Are you using round ball?
If you are using round ball, have you recovered and examined any of the patches? Can we see photos of them please?
Did the rifle start doing this behavior over time, OR did you obtain this rifle and found it shoots this way?
Has this rifle been coned?
Have you examined the crown at the muzzle?

LD

It scatter shots vertically but sometime surprises me with a 2 in 1 group. I have used RB and maxi's with the same problem. Patches are nowhere to be found. Obtained the rifle from a pawn shop, was unaware of how it shot . No coning. Crown is perfect.

 

[reddogge]

If it's grouping it's a sight problem. Make sure your rear sight is as low as possible. You can also cut the notch in the sight lower or buy or make a higher front sight. The other consideration is a bent barrel and the only good way to find that out is to unbreech it and look down the bore. Barrels can be straightened.

 

[Bad Karma]

It scatter shots vertically but sometime surprises me with a 2 in 1 group. I have used RB and maxi's with the same problem. Patches are nowhere to be found. Obtained the rifle from a pawn shop, was unaware of how it shot . No coning. Crown is perfect.

It sounds like it’s not grouping well, different problem than shooting high. What load are you using?

 

[Loyalist Dave]

It scatter shots vertically but sometime surprises me with a 2 in 1 group. I have used RB and maxi's with the same problem. Patches are nowhere to be found. Obtained the rifle from a pawn shop, was unaware of how it shot . No coning. Crown is perfect.

The problem may be indicated by the patches. IF the patches are being torn up, that usually means either a rough spot in the bore, or a ringed barrel.

The fact that sometimes two ball almost go into the same hole means that for those shots, the patches survived long enough to impart sufficient spin

LD

 

[ETipp]

The problem may be indicated by the patches. IF the patches are being torn up, that usually means either a rough spot in the bore, or a ringed barrel.

The fact that sometimes two ball almost go into the same hole means that for those shots, the patches survived long enough to impart sufficient spin

LD

Agreed. Also, if you have not been successful in finding fired patches, then spread a tarp out in front of your shooting bench from about 10 feet to 30 feet. If there's any crosswind whatsoever and you are not able to find patches on the tarp, then look on the downwind side. It takes very little wind to blow patches to the side.

In addition, if its a TC and it will not shoot a Maxi Ball well, then there's definitely a snake in the woodpile somewhere. Have you ascertained the sights have no play in them?

Wedge pin and barrel tight?

Until we find out more information, it almost sounds as if something is loose. It would behoove you to get the rifle to group first, or at least consistent, regardless of POI.

 

[Tasbay]

Are you resting the fore stock on the sandbag or the barrel? Usually causes more issue with modern rifles but the barrel harmonics change if the barrel is rested on a surface. A sandbag I`m not so sure about but defiantly a hard surface.

 

[8Ball]

Is there a QLA recessed crown?

 

[westrayer]

Start with cleaning. I bought a T/C Hawken from a friend and it wouldn't shoot worth darn. He had been shooting sabots.
I bought BoreTech BP cleaner. It took a while and a lot of brushing and patches but I got it squared away. I also polished the bore with JB Paste and patches before cleaning again. I always treat the bores with 1000+ and use the pre-cut patches lubed with the same.
I would also check to see if you have a lot of upward pressure from the forearm. You might not have the correct sights on it also. An easy fix is to get a higher front sight.
On my guns I run 90 grains of FFFg and patched ball for .54 and 80 grins of FFFg and patched ball in .50 cal. I have to set my rear sight almost all of the way down. If I sight for 100 yards I hit about 4" high at 50 yards. Given that hunting shots will be closer than 100, I split the difference for sighting.

 

[GEdward]

Made own post

 

[Rock Home Isle]

I have a Thompson Center 54 ca. black powder rifle. It does not have the word Renegade on the barrel. No matter what powder charge I use, round ball or maxi ball, rear sight adjustment up or down, it will shoot all consistently high 12 inches or better from a sand bagged rest using a six oclock hold at 50 yards. Pyrodex 2fg powder
from 50 gr to 90 gr. I am ready to use this as a boat anchor considering I have 2 other T/C rifles in 45 and 50 who print consistent 2 inch groups at 50 yards all day long. Someone please give me a solution.

Just for arguments sake…Post a couple images of the crown of the muzzle…nice clear close ups…

Try to find patches…even if totally shredded. It could be that the powder chamber at the breach is corroded badly. Drop a bore scope down and tell us what you see…

I have a TVM that gave me fits…sent it back to TVM twice. It shot pie plate groups at 25 yrds. Took it to a local gun builder and he promptly recrowned the barrel…lights out ever since. Years of complete frustration solved…

 

[longcruise]

I've recently encountered this problem with two barrels. One a TC and the other a CVA Frontier. Both shot pretty good groups and both showed good fired patches. In fact, my grandson did pretty well in a match by holding under. I'm suspecting barrels that were not bored straight.

I'm going to try solving with sight changes.

Here's a thought. Might one in the case of a 50 caliber be able to see the effects of an off bore with a long straight 1/2" dowel?

 

[reddogge]

I don't think you could get a dowel to be straight enough. I'd try stretching a cord through the bore.