54 vs 50...any real advantage?

[Russ Clagett]

This is most excellent info gents..and exactly what I need. I have zero experience shooting BP but have quite a bit with modern rifles....

Had no idea the 45 was so well though of...or that you could get such huge bullets for it...

Could we talk more about that...? I would also like to know what kind of accuracy a well made 45 with a huge bullet can get....I know it's complicated like the mileage on my diesel truck...but at the same time it's not....

If it'll shoot 2 moa it'll do everything I need it to do as a hunting rifle...anywhere. Are these rifles capable of that?

 

[Lonegun1894]

If I may ask a few questions...

How far are you planning on shooting? And when you say bear, are we talking black or brown/grizz?

The reason I ask is that for any hog or deer out to 100 yards or so, the only thing the conical does that a RB doesn't is use more lead and kick more. Past 100 yards is where you will see the conical start showing an advantage in flight. Also, since we don't have many bears in Central Texas, I assume you plan on travelling to bear hunt. I haven't gotten to take a bear of any kind yet, but based on reading, just about any deer caliber deer rifle is adequate for black bear, so I would use my .54 GPR firing a RB for any deer, hog, or black bear out to 100 yards and save myself a beating and some lead. Now if you're talking Grizzly, with all the stories I've heard and read, the conical may be a very good idea just for the sake of more lead on target and at a longer range. And if that is the case, all the old long range ML rifles, weather the intended target was an enemy soldier or a buffalo, were .45s, and those boys did a LOT of testing and development before they chose that as their caliber of choice.

 

[Lonegun1894]

This is most excellent info gents..and exactly what I need. I have zero experience shooting BP but have quite a bit with modern rifles....

Had no idea the 45 was so well though of...or that you could get such huge bullets for it...

Could we talk more about that...? I would also like to know what kind of accuracy a well made 45 with a huge bullet can get....I know it's complicated like the mileage on my diesel truck...but at the same time it's not....

If it'll shoot 2 moa it'll do everything I need it to do as a hunting rifle...anywhere. Are these rifles capable of that?

Be careful to not let your experience with modern guns skew your expectations and experience with MLs. Today, we get beat with the latest greatest high velocity sales ads, but MLs don't work like that. Just remember that the Army did testing in the late 1800s and found that they need 300fps, yes, that's all, for mortal wounds. Also keep in mind that regardless of the projectile weapon used, be that a slingshot, a ML, or a modern gun, you have three things to consider. The size (diameter) of the projectile, the weight of the projectile, and the velocity. Out of those three, the size and the weight are the only two constants, as you start losing velocity as soon as it exits the muzzle. You just have to find the level of compromise that you are comfortable with. I personally like a .54 with a RB, but that means accepting that I have no business shooting much past 100 yards with it. I have modern guns for when I want to shoot long range, but don't hunt that way anymore.

 

[BrownBear]

I've only skimmed the other responses, but here's a factor that's important to both my wife and me. In the same model rifle, the 50 will always be a little more muzzle-heavy than a 54. In our house the 54's predominate over the 50's simply because we prefer the balance of a 54 in those models.

 

[crockett]

I'm going to guess you might not have done much black powder shooting. I'm going to further guess that you are applying standard ballistics to black powder-hence the biggest conical you can get.
You are not alone, the great majority of folks start with the same notion.
If the range is 125 yards or farther and you are going to put a scope on the rifle, etc. etc.-then a conical probably is going to work okay. If you are going to use open sights and shoot something at 70 yards or less, then maybe a patched round ball should be strongly considered.
The conical is difficult to ram down the bore and the bore needs to be clean. Some folks use a wood mallet and hammer on the end of the ramrod to seat the conical. If the bore is badly fouled and you try to seat a conical you might get it half down and no further, the conical is picking up more and more fouling as it goes down the bore and then just stops. Mallet or not. So swabbing between shots is mandatory with a conical.
You also get into fouling issues, lead fouling in a muzzle loader. When a round ball is enclosed in a cloth patch there is no lead fouling.
The round ball can use more powder. The heavy conical increases internal pressure and you have to back off on the powder charge. The patched round ball (PRB) starts with a HIGHER velocity.
Generally the trade off point is around 70 yards.
The other thing is the pure lead. It will flatten out like a quarter with a ragged edge. So a quarter with a ragged edge cutting through both lungs of an elk. I saw one ball like that and the fellow that showed me the ball (50 caliber) said a one shot kill and the elk didn't run far.
Historically the mountain men talked of a novel 1" long bullet. They were interested but there is little evidence they dropped the PRB for a 1" "bullet". IAE- I'd strongly think about using a PRB.

 

[Christophero]

I've shot conical bullets out of my 50's for the past 29 years with good success and enjoyment. With the right bullet they are easy to load. But that is with pure lead. Anything harder, like plumber's lead, is a different story. Been there, done that.
The TC Maxi Hunters and the Lee REAL bullets were very accurate out of different barrels. I've loaded as many as 20 Maxi Hunters in a row without swabbing the bore with no issue on seating the bullet or loss of accuracy. This was a common practice on shooting session evenings. The right bullet does make a difference. This is with a TC Renegade. That same load of 65 gr of fffg with a Maxi Hunter dropped a buck at 175 steps one frosty morning by completely penetrating the spine.

That said, I used a PRB for the first time 2 seasons ago and it did a very fine job on the large doe at 30 yards. The thing about BP is it is All fun. Enjoy

 

[Kapow]

You need to decide on what style of rifle floats your boat. Do you want to buy a half stock style of rifle like the Hawken or a full stock style such as the Tennessee rifle. The reason is that different style of rifles typically use different styles of bores.

Long rifle styles are usually slower and deeper in their rifling to specialise in shooting roundballs only. They usually won't shoot conicals at all. Barrels for conicals are faster and shallower in their grooves to stabilise the longer bullet.

Since both styles kill by making a large hole regardless of velocity, you won't necessarily get any more lethality from a conical. You might find at ranges under 80 yards that the roundball is slightly more deadly as it will expand more than a conical and therefore make a bigger hole.

Don't feel for a second that you will be handicapped by choosing the roundball style of rifle. Regardless, I would absolutely choose the 0.54, which was your original question.

 

[Donny]

You should google Long Range ML shooting and see what is out there for the .45 with BP.
And LR BPCR shooting.
Or Snapper will show up here.

The olde market hunters shot buff at 300 yards,
so if a .45 with 70 gr. can drop a buff
with one shot at that distance......

 

[mooman76]

I don't think it was mentioned but with a long heavy conical you are going to need a faster twist barrel. Many BP guns do not come with a fast twist but they are available so it also will be something you need to consider.

 

[bender20]

So is the .54 the perfect mean of round ball shooting. Does it make sense to go to .58 or even .62 in a rifle?

 

[nkbj]

I think a .58 and a .62 are plum cool and a passel of fun. Crusty TC's are opportunities!

 

[Lonegun1894]

So is the .54 the perfect mean of round ball shooting. Does it make sense to go to .58 or even .62 in a rifle?

In North America, for anything short of Grizzly or Polar Bear, I wouldn't bother going up over a .54 in a rifle. And for those two, I'm not sure I'd want a ML unless it was all I had.

 

[Tom Compton]

Especially for those just moving from CF and modern ML to traditional ML I make the following comparisons.

In the ML world shooting PRB my opinion is that a .50 is like a .30-06 and a .54 is like a .338 Win Mag. The '06 is large for varmints great for white tail and mulies and good up to elk moose and buffalo. The .338 is a little large for wt and mulies great for elk moose and buffalo and ok on big bear. I think of a .40 as ML equivalent to a .243 and a .45 as a .270.

Some folks have a (or more) .32, .36, .40, .45, and .50 etc and can choose the perfect caliber for their game. I have a .40 flint and a .54 flint. Sold my .50 flint. If I hunt for something like antelope or blackbuck I'll just take the one I feel like using that trip tho a .45 or might be more appropriate. If I had to have only one ov each I'd choose a .50 and a .30-06.
TC

 

[mooman76]

Really this has been done to death. 32 or 36, 45 or 50, 50 or 54. And you can keep on going. Why not a 58 or 62? There is almost always an advantage with a larger caliber but you have to stop somewhere.

 

[Mort Scott]

don't stop get them all .

 

[Col. Batguano]

And the ones in between. There were lots of guns made in the "non standard" calibers back in the day. 31, 34, 38, 41, 42, 49, 51, 52 etc.

In the ML'ing world your aspirations are less confined than they are in the cartridge world. In that world, if you want t totally new cartridge, you first have to figure out how to make the brass if it's not based upon anything existing. In the ML'ing world, your "cartridge" is already there. It's the bore. And with variations in patch size, you can have stuff in between the stuff that's in between.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I'm new at this guys so be patient...my question is...is there any real advantage to a 54 over a 50 caliber rifle...?

I plan to shoot the heaviest conicals I can out of whichever one I end up with...looking for a rifle now.

I plan to shoot deer, hogs, and bear.

.54 is bigger. But bigger does not necessarily mean 'better'. And heavy conicals are not needed for yur game choices. Round ball from a .50 will do all you wish on those critters. But, this is a do yer own thang game. If ye want a shoulder busting lead waster, get the .54 and huge conicals. Not needed, but yer choice.

 

[BigBoreBLR]

A few things.

Check your state laws and neighboring state laws on legal muzzleloading equipment.

I hunt whitetails in NY around 100 yards or less, with 54 roundballs. That is alsoy limit with it on sighted modern arms, despite the caliber. With average no glasses 38 year old eyes.

As said before, heavy conical require specific barrels 1 turn in 48 inches or less.

Let the gun condition dictate the decision if buying used.

Lyman and thompson center can swap barrels, anything else will be difficult and expensive.

Sights are a limitation more than the bullet or speed.

 

[hanshi]

Unless you specifically want to waste lead and powder, a .50 patched round ball will kill bear/whitetail and even elk quite cleanly. My own recommendation for a deer/black bear rifle is a .45 shooting prb, not conicals.

 

[Russ Clagett]

Thanks for the excellent advice guys...exactly what I need...

So it appears any of these calibers will do what I need...from 45 to 54...got it.

So it also appears a round ball will do it too...but only out to how far...will a round ball work out to 150 yards?

Or is the conical the better choice for that..?

Will a 450 grain conical 45 bullet fly and hit like a 450 grain 54 conical...? Or does the diameter of the 54 have an advantage..?