.54 vs. .56 smoothbores...let's Speculate !!!

[roundball]

Wondering what was behind the manufacturing decisions of TC and GM when they made some smoothbore barrels?

TC made a .56cal smoothbore...which I conclude they did by using a .54cal rifle barrel, then removing the lands resulting in the full .56cal size...otherwise I don't know why they would have precisely bored out a blank to ".56cal" as a specific size;

GM on the other hand makes a .54cal smoothbore barrel that is apparently a .54cal...and they simply eliminated the operation of putting grooves in it that would have made it a .54cal rifle barrel.

Anybody got a better handle on why they both offered similar smoothbore barrels that are kinda-sorta the same size but slightly different??

 

[Mike Brooks]

I prefer the true 28ga. which is a .55 cal.

 

[jim gray]

I would like to get my hands on a T/C .56 cal. smoothbore, but have never had the money and the opportunity at the same time.

Since you asked for speculation, it seems to me that it would have been too costly to rifle a barrel and then ream the rifling out of it. I think that T/C probably wouldn't have found it very cost effective to ream out .54 cal. barrels. Maybe they used barrels that were bored off center or slightly out of round and reamed out the bore to correct the problem. It just doesn't seem likely that they would have reamed out a perfectly good rifled barrel.

Also the size may have been choosen as a way to recover the cost of those reject rifled barrels or possibly to allow T/C to sell the load components and necessary accoutrements exclusively.

It is an interesting question. Sorry, I don't have any real answers.

 

[arcticap]

Since we're just speculating, I can't help thinking that it might have had something to do with the fact that the gun was specially designed for the Mass. smoothbore season. Maybe TC perceived Mass.'s "unique" smoothbore season as being uncommon enough to deserve their very own unique & uncommon smoothbore caliber too. One thing led to another and the beast was born.
Recently, I was somewhat impressed to read onsite about how the .535 PRB still shot accurately enough for hunting purposes even though the gun supposedly prefer's a .550 PRB for best results. So, providing the hunter with a wide range of PRB sizes to shoot can also be viewed as another virtue of the .56, whether intended or not. :m2c:

 

[[email protected]]

....yep "The Beast "
I have read that some where else....involved Mass.
must be nice to be "special" .....maybe got somthang to do with the Kennedys.....hmmmmm.


*** wv scrounger ***

 

[Leatherbark]

Seems to me I read back in the early eighties that there were some states that only allowed Smoothbores during Muzzleloading season.......Since we all used T.C Hawkens in them there days it was good of T.C. to make the .56 for them hunters in them ther states that needed it.............Seems like maybe it was Montana or maybe North Dakota or a state in that area.........Not sure.............Bob

 

[musketman]

Wondering what was behind the manufacturing decisions of TC and GM when they made some smoothbore barrels?

I remember when T/C brought out the .56 smoothbore, it was marketed for the "primitive" season of some states, I believe Pennsylvania was one of those states at that time in history...

 

[brubincam]

i think years ago pennsylvania was flint smoothbore....

 

[rabjr]

I remember those T/C .56 smoothbores well, here in R.I we could only use smoothbore muzzleloaders until 1983 when the law was changed to allow rifled muzzle loaders.

 

[Beerd2]

wern't Montana. we don't have a "muzzleloader only" season. never did, probably never will.
..

 

[arcticap]

:thanks: for correctly informing me about Rhode Island Swamp Rat.

Bigbore442001 had previously posted this about the original Mass. season:
"So the added incumbrences of smoothbore, open sights and a pre-1865 design was mandated.....This remained for a long time until the early 1980's when the muzzleloader season allowed rifled flintlocks."

General Musketman, I too thought Penn. was flint only until recently. I recall hearing about how Penn. residents had to go to West Virginia, etc...if they wanted to hunt with percussion rifles.
Now I really wonder what other smoothbore only states there were back then?

 

[roundball]

I remember those T/C .56 smoothbores well, here in R.I we could only use smoothbore muzzleloaders until 1983 when the law was changed to allow rifled muzzle loaders.

And do you ever remember hearing why they ended up deciding on a ".56" instead of what I would think to be a more normal .54cal size?

 

[arcticap]

Could there have been a smoothbore state with a minimum guage or caliber requirement which the .54 caliber wouldn't meet the standard requirement for?
If not arbitrarily chosen, some technical designer at TC must have had some reason.
Why was the .58 ever designed (historically), or why wasn't the Renegade made in .58 back then? (or was it?)
Also, I wonder if by using the .56, it was a way to help insure hunters didn't use a readily available (.54) conical projectile since only "pumkin balls" (RB) were considered legal for hunting deer. That way, people couldn't easily make an "honest" mistake? ::

 

[roundball]

Wondering what was behind the manufacturing decisions of TC and GM when they made some smoothbore barrels?

TC made a .56cal smoothbore...which I conclude they did by using a .54cal rifle barrel, then removing the lands resulting in the full .56cal size...otherwise I don't know why they would have precisely bored out a blank to ".56cal" as a specific size;

GM on the other hand makes a .54cal smoothbore barrel that is apparently a .54cal...and they simply eliminated the operation of putting grooves in it that would have made it a .54cal rifle barrel.

Anybody got a better handle on why they both offered similar smoothbore barrels that are kinda-sorta the same size but slightly different??

Don't know why I didn't do this initially...just got off the phone with TC...the guy said:

The .56cal smoothbore was originally made due to a Mass. State Law;

That they were made that way from the ground up since day 1 (not by converting old .54cal barrels or anything)

The caliber size was driven by either a minimum caliber size and/or ball weight requirement...couldn't remember which...but there was definitely something that drove the caliber size decision, was not just a random decision.

 

[rabjr]

Not sure Roundball...

I'm having a hell of time right now trying to get the State to let us have the option to continue the use of of our muzzleloaders (rifled) during our shotgun season. It makes no sense not to let us, now that shotguns are no longer smoothbore only....There maybe a min gauge/cal sticking point that needs to be addressed. But I suspect its all political.

 

[taylorh]

My T/C Renegade measures exactly .550 cal. Patched (.18 ticking) .535 roundballs shoot excellent out to 50 yards (no need for wads and overshot cards with roundballs). It is a great gun, and 28 gauge circle-fly wads and cards work great (snug and tight). I do use a 24 gauge over-shot card but I think it unnecessary. I would try the 28 gauge card for comparison if I didn't already have 1000 24 gauge overshot cards. For more info check the .56 renegade string (topic). :thumbsup:

P.S. I heard the same Mass. story from T/C when I called too. However it is quite a coincidence that the grove depth of their .54 rifle and the .56 smoothbore are axactly the same (.550). Lots of other folk here agree that your ball should be .20 under bore size (.535) to avoid fouling problems. Lots of other folk have good things to say about the the .550 balls, but I can't imagine shooting these all day for fun considering the fouling!

 

[gordy]

roundball!Glad You got the stright poop on the.56.I've often wondered about why they made it .56.I've see several on auction-arms in the past year or so.Some new in box.I've got a TC Renegade with a rough pitted bore that might just make a good smooth-bore.

 

[roundball]

roundball!Glad You got the stright poop on the.56.I've often wondered about why they made it .56.I've see several on auction-arms in the past year or so.Some new in box.I've got a TC Renegade with a rough pitted bore that might just make a good smooth-bore.

Well, I just got a 15/16" x 33" GM .54cal Flint smoothbore barrel for a TC Hawken stock, and it's outstanding with shot loads...far tighter pattern than with the .56cal I had a few years ago. Maybe because it's .020" tighter diameter than the .56cal and/or the longer barrel length, but it just shoots a pattern that rivals my Remington shotguns.

I only got it for shot loads...already have .54 & .58caliber rifles..not even going to deer hunt Saturdays in October...I'll just wait for the November rut...will hunt squirrels with the new Flint smoothbore in October instead...excited about it!
:front:

 

[taylorh]

Just curious, have you measured the exact diameter? What is it?
Thanks
Taylor in Texas

 

[roundball]

Just curious, have you measured the exact diameter? What is it?
Thanks
Taylor in Texas

I have now...I measured it a dozen times at different points around the muzzle and get .538/.540/.538/.539...the variance is probably me as much as anything...but never-the-less, seems like .538 came up the most often