54cal shorty

[petew]

I just picked up a great deal on a short barrel 54cal Safari Arms {Investarms} Hawken style and it will be a while before I can get out shooting it. What can I expect diferent with the 22" barrel from the long barrel models? I want to dedicate this one for bush hunting shooting maxi conicals at no more than 70 yards. Will the 22" barrel need a powder reduction from what the 28" barrel uses? will I be loosing a lot of velocity with the short barrel ?

 

[roundball]

What can I expect diferent with the 22" barrel from the long barrel models?

'Usually' a longer barreled rifle gains a bit of accuracy from the longer sighting plane, less muzzle wander from the extra weight out front, etc;

Will the 22" barrel need a powder reduction from what the 28" barrel uses?

Need to locate the manufacturer's load data

will I be loosing a lot of velocity with the short barrel ?

Conventional thinking is to a point, longer barrels usually produce higher velocity;

 

[necchi]

I had the Cabelas (Investarms) Hawken Carbine in .54 for a short period.
I tried three different maxi, the two Lee REAL and the large T/C Maxihunter in that thing searching for accuracy.

I worked loads of 2F from 80 thru 110 at 50yards.
I managed to keep all the loads inside a 9" paper plate, with the best being 4" and no better.
(defenately Kill Zone size)
While any of those would have been a great short range hunting load, I wanted more accuracy than that and sold the gun.

p.s. I can't remember which ones, but some of the loads where "key hole`ing" at the target.
The fast twist didn't shoot ball worth a hoot either.

 

[misher]

Should throw a pretty flame in the dark!

 

[nkbj]

What's your twist rate and rifling style look like on that rascal?

 

[BrownBear]

Dunno that one, but I have an Investarms 58 that's 1:48. And it's a tackdriver with both conical and ball.

My wife has a Lyman Deerslayer in 54 with approx the same barrel length. It does much better with conicals using 3f than 2f, and even better when we put a lubed felt wad under it. Some folks call them "bore buttons." Never chronoed it, so I can't tell you how much loss there is from a 32" GPR. My wife isn't real fond of recoil, so she deer hunts with 60 grains of 3f under a RB. And it's a certified deer smacker in our brushy terrain and most shots under 50 yards. If yours doesn't shoot conicals, I'd still hunt it with RBs and be confident.

BTW- My wife is typical in not having as much upper body strength as a guy, so she really likes the handling with the shorter barrel. And no one who has seen her shoot that thing will put money up if they challenge her to a shoot. :grin:

 

[William O.]

I had an Investarm fast twist barrel that I had to cut down to 25 +/- inches due to a bulge near the muzzle and it was very accurate shooting 250 grain REAL bullets. The addition of a caliber sized fiber wad always seemed to tighten the groups when shooting conicals but didn't do anything when used with PRB.
I suspect that shooting conicals out of a shorter barrel you may have to use a powder charge close to or at right at maximum to have a less than noticable drop in the bullet's path but first you will need to see whether that or a PRB is going to be the most accurate.
Mine needed 95 grains of 3f and a light, 250 grain REAL bullet to do it's best but had to get a new front sight and adjustable rear sight to deal with the rainbow trajectory. It's not something to take to the range and punch targets all day as recoil was stout. Because of all that my self imposed limit on game was 75 yards but I knew that a 50 caliber REAL bullet would do the job on anything I would likely get into my sights. If it's a good RB shooter and mediorce conical thrower than have confidence in your ability to load it with RB and put it exactly where you know the animal if going to go down and stay down on the first shot.
Yes, you may loose some velocity out of a shorter barrel but you just get to figure it while out at the range making smoke. I'd look forward to a challenge like that!

 

[Ken Rummer]

My Lyman Deerstalker 54 is my most accurate ML rifle. It has a 24" barrel, 1:48 twist. I shoot 90 gr Goex 3F and get 3 shot groups under 1" at 50 yds.

Find an accurate load at 70+ gr Goex and go hunting.

 

[Ken Rummer]

My Lyman Deerstalker 54 is my most accurate ML rifle. It has a 24" barrel, 1:48 twist. I shoot 90 gr Goex 3F and get 3 shot groups under 1" at 50 yds.

Find an accurate load at 70+ gr Goex and go hunting.

 

[Rafsob]

I have two of these guns. One is a .54 cal. Cabalas sport Hawken Carbine with a 21" barrel and it has a 1 in 24" twist rate. I also have another one in .50 cal. with a 22" barrel and a 1 in 66" twist and shoots PRBs. Both are made by InvestArms.

The .54 cal. I have shot many different conicals and finally settled on a saboted barnes bullet. I shoot 85 grs. of FFg and get very nice results at 75 yds.

This is the .54 cal., the scope is a Leatherwood:

 

[Rifleman1776]

You will gain considerable muzzle blast. :shocked2: Protect yer hearing.
A roundball will kill almost anything walking.
I have never understood the concept of a "brush gun". I carried a long barreled ml in the woods and "brush" most of my life without difficulty.

 

[hanshi]

I have a soft spot for (reasonably short) long guns. I would dearly love to build a yeager kit with a 31" swamped barrel in .54.

 

[TennesseeJed]

I had one of the Cabelas Hawken .50 carbines for a while. Louder, a bit more muzzle jump, and not quite as accurate as the fullsize Cabelas Hawken I have. It was a neat little gun but I sold it and bought a fullsize Cabelas Hawken flintlock .54.

 

[TennesseeJed]

I don't care at all for scopes on traditional muzzleloaders, but I'll make an exception in your case, I like the looks of that.

 

[brubincam]

which is best?
a short long gun?
a long short gun?

 

[BrownBear]

which is best?
a short long gun?
a long short gun?

I prefer Fords, but my brother is a Chevy man through and through.

 

[Zoar]

A short long gun. Hands down!

That one was easy! :thumbsup: :grin:

 

[Sinner]

definitely no "right" answer, just a personal preference, UNLESS, qualifying with a specific use.
I personally have never seen the use of a short long gun and have hunted some very thick areas in Kodiak, Ak.
Would I say someone shouldn't choose a short long gun? Nope, try both and see what you prefer.
Now, I've never hunted from horseback, that might be a good application for a short long gun!

 

[Sinner]

I agree, Roundball, especially with the velocity standpoint. Blackpowder and subs are slow burning. A shorter barrel will not be able to burn larger charges fully, resulting in wasted powder.
An easy way to check that petew, is to place a white sheet on the ground and see if powder ends up on it

 

[Zoar]

(hint: No such thing as a long short gun)

But yes there definitely are "short long guns".

I like having some around.