58 cal carbine by Mr. Hoyt in WMC stock

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Personally, don’t own any fine Spanish SxSs so I can’t comment. While not in the same category, but still more than serviceable, I have a 1978 12 gauge Pedersoli SxS muzzleloader that weighs in at 5.8 pounds and handles and shoots like a dream. Handled a ‘current’ example of the gun and in my opinion was on the wrong side of 8 pounds and felt like an ill fitting war club by comparison. A good design that is well executed by craftsmen can makes big difference.
 
mendi.jpg
16ga Mateo Mendicute from 1941. 6lbs 2 ozs 28" barrels

Like pointing your finger.
 
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I own and hunt with a .54 cal White Mountain carbine by Thompson Center. Never cared for its trigger and spring ramrod tensioner. I would lengthen both under ribs on the carbines if I owned them. Full length under ribs will reduce recoil slightly and not throw off balance point. I can see things catching in the gap between the under rib and barrel in the front and the back of the under rib when hunting in heavy brush.
On the shorter 21" barrel rifle I would compare bench rest groups with the ramrod sticking out past the muzzle, a group using no ramrod and a third with the ramrod flush with the muzzle. There is a difference in point of impact when I have different ramrod lengths. I do like how you reinforce the trigger plate and tang of the breech.
I plan to replace the crummy trigger system with a custom made double phase single set trigger designed for an English sporter. I see you replaced the blued steel front sight with high visibility modern ones. $1200 for a used TC Renegade in .54 cal seems awfully high. One sold for half that price at our Winter Convention a year ago. I'd shop around.
 
beardedhorse said:
I own and hunt with a .54 cal White Mountain carbine by Thompson Center. Never cared for its trigger and spring ramrod tensioner. I would lengthen both under ribs on the carbines if I owned them. Full length under ribs will reduce recoil slightly and not throw off balance point. I can see things catching in the gap between the under rib and barrel in the front and the back of the under rib when hunting in heavy brush.
On the shorter 21" barrel rifle I would compare bench rest groups with the ramrod sticking out past the muzzle, a group using no ramrod and a third with the ramrod flush with the muzzle. There is a difference in point of impact when I have different ramrod lengths. I do like how you reinforce the trigger plate and tang of the breech.
I plan to replace the crummy trigger system with a custom made double phase single set trigger designed for an English sporter. I see you replaced the blued steel front sight with high visibility modern ones. $1200 for a used TC Renegade in .54 cal seems awfully high. One sold for half that price at our Winter Convention a year ago. I'd shop around.
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That crummy trigger can be tuned to safely break at 2.5-3# with minimal creep. It’s a very sound investment of a half an hour or so. If the barrel is up to it these are fine shooting carbines for the intended use.
 
Both my triggers are crisp, 3# with no discernible creep. Additionally the WMC stock (as does the other clones New Englander et. al.) lends itself to reinforcement much better than the Renegade stock (hunter/single trigger version of Renegade is ok) does due to the design of the trigger/trigger guard integration. The narrow wrist is not a factor if the gun has been properly bedded and modded. In short, it is the ideal stock/trigger combo to make a hard-hitting carbine and even more so if you get your barrel (usually a renegade) custom made to the length and caliber that you desire. You need a faster twist than 1:48 for carbines to stabilize your bullets properly and likely some faster burning 3f to get the velocities you want, but I have found accuracy is no issue on carbines with the right twist/bullet combination.

All it takes is some basic gunsmithing skills, the proper tools, knowledge of external ballistics, patience, forum search skills and, of course, youtube.
 
chorizo said:
Received my latest Mr Bobby Hoyt rebore today, in 58cal. It started life as an early Renegade 50 cal and I had it rebored to 58 cal with a 1:38 twist ..580 bore to groove .010 tall lands and cut to 24". It is mounted in a reinforced 54cal White Mountain Carbine stock. It weights 7lbs even!

I will be shooting 580 grain Maxi-balls out of it.

It is pictured alongside of my 54 cal 21" that Mr. Hoyt bored out for me.

It should be a real thumper. It will be my hunting gun when I have to share my hunting territory with old Mr. Ephriam, the griz.

View attachment 193412View attachment 193413
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Pretty awesome!
 
I have one barrel left to be bored out. It will be a 54 1:32 twist cut to 25".

Got to wait until he takes on more work, but I got plenty to shoot until then!
 
chorizo said:
I have one barrel left to be bored out. It will be a 54 1:32 twist cut to 25".

Got to wait until he takes on more work, but I got plenty to shoot until then!
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Damn son! You’re gonna take up half his work for the year!

BTW, I got a package from you today… thank you Brother. It’s going to be fixed onto a figured piece of French Walnut before going up in a place of honor on the wall. We never forget those who went before us. Semper Fi.
 
Bad Karma said:
Damn son! You’re gonna take up half his work for the year!

BTW, I got a package from you today… thank you Brother. It’s going to be fixed onto a figured piece of French Walnut before going up in a place of honor on the wall. We never forget those who went before us. Semper Fi.
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That would have made my Dad smile. Semper fi.

My goal, if they delist the Grizzly, is to draw a tag and get a Griz in the lower 48 with a muzzleloader before I am too old to do so.

54 cal 525 grain No Excuses bullet travelling at 1400 fps out of a 25" 1:32 twist should do the trick. That is 1400 ftlbs of energy with lots of penetration at 100 yards and should provide great accuracy like the Jaeger rifles do.

That or the Val Forgett 610 grain 58 cal, at 1200fps that I will carry as a backup gun. Yes, I will carry two......a New York reload if you will. I don't want to leave a note on my rifle that says "This rifle kilt the grizzly that kilt me."
 
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Urban Coyote said:
I cant wait for the range report. I want to know if the recoil spins you 180° or a full 360°.😂
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Man, don't jinx me! Did the recoil calculation......around 27 recoil . A little more than a 2 3/4" high base 12 ga load.

1676745967280.png


And I have rubber pads ...not crescent buttplates so I am not worried too much.

1676746284921.png
 
chorizo said:
Received my latest Mr Bobby Hoyt rebore today, in 58cal. It started life as an early Renegade 50 cal and I had it rebored to 58 cal with a 1:38 twist ..580 bore to groove .010 tall lands and cut to 24". It is mounted in a reinforced 54cal White Mountain Carbine stock. It weights 7lbs even!

I will be shooting 580 grain Maxi-balls out of it.

It is pictured alongside of my 54 cal 21" that Mr. Hoyt bored out for me.

It should be a real thumper. It will be my hunting gun when I have to share my hunting territory with old Mr. Ephriam, the griz.

View attachment 193412View attachment 193413
Click to expand...
The entire hobby would be bereft without Mr. Hoyt! :)
 
I've watched this project along the way and I think it's pretty cool, the last thing I want to do is jinx you. As I might have mentioned in a reply to an earlier post it's gonna be on heck of a piece of artillery. I'll bet it could take out a CCP spy balloon as effectively as a sidewinder missile, a lot less expensively too.
 
@Dobegrant Thanks for giving me a name for the guns.

Here are the three Thumpers in their final form:

Left to right: 58 cal 1:38 24" in a Big Boar reinforced stock; 54 cal 1:38 24" in a reinforced WMC stock;
54 cal 1:38 21" in a reinforced WMC stock

All three are Bobby Hoyt rebore with the 21" a reline/rebore

thumpers.jpg

Some surprising specs: Both the 24" 58 cal in the bigger renegade type stock and the 21" 54 cal in the WMC stock weigh the same: 6lbs 10 ozs. The 24" 54cal weighs 7lbs 2ozs. The 58 is a true .580 diameter bore, the 24" 54 is a true .540 diameter bore and the 54 reline/rebore is oversized at .5412 diameter bore. All three have a "kentucky" rifling style as described/illustrated in Ned Roberts book (same as T/C but with a groove depth of .010 for concicals). All three have Williams Ghost ring Firesights I have modified to fit the 1" barrels as they will be hunting guns.

The provisional loads I plan on using with T7 3F powder:

58 cal 510 gr oversized .582 minie, a 580 gr maxi ball, and a 560 gr maxi hunter..I will try a 444gr REAL also

24" 54 cal 485 gr No Excuses

21" 54 cal 425gr CVA Buckslayer

Depending on the results achieved shooting, I have another reinforced WMC stock and a barrel that I will rebore to mount in that stock, but I am holding off for now. It might be a 25" 1:32 twist or a 22" 1:32 twist. to shoot a No Excuses 525 gr. Right now I am leaning towards the 22" (but yesterday it was the 25"...decision will be in the shooting results)

I will post velocity/accuracy results as I get them over the next couple of weeks.
 
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