.58 cal Harpers ferry

[Sharpie44]

I have an issue with another one of my guns. This time it's the Harpers ferry. I bought this thing a while back and had a few good times out at the range with it but it was always tough to get it to throw enough sparks to get it to go off. Now it's not throwing any at all with any flint I put in it. I put a brand new English flint in it and it only sparks about half the time.

I took it down to the log cabin and they comforted my fears that the main spring is shot. It's always had a light spring on it but I guess it's just gotten to bad to use now. I was hoping all I needed to do was harden the frizzen but no such luck, it's the spring. Any one know how I can fix it? The spring is intact it just doesn't have enough resistance.

 

[Zonie]

Although this can increase the force the mainspring will develop it might also cause the spring to break so if you decide to do it you have been forewarned.

If you look at your photo and notice the area where your thumb and finger is located that is the place you can install a small wedge between the upper and lower leaf.

Just looking at the picture I'll suggest that the wedge should be about 1/4" long and as wide as the spring in that area.

The wedge can be made of a hard wood but one made of brass, bronze or steel would be better.

It should be filed at a slight angle that matches the angle where the two leaves are coming together.
It can be held in place by applying a bit of epoxy or magic glue to the upper area that will be contacting the flater upper leaf.

You only want the glue on one side of the spacer so the spring can flex on the lower side.

Do NOT try to solder the spacer in place.

Just looking at the spring, to me it looks like it should be enough without modifying it but it may need everything it can get working for it to be reliable.
Applying a thick lithium grease to the top of the spur on the tumbler will help the spring to slide on that surface.
Oiling all moving parts of the lock might help too.

Good luck.

 

[Vairochana]

Surely a new on from TOTW is only a few buck?
Or is it wrong to suggest buying a replacement?

 

[Zonie]

Buying a new one is a great idea if one is available.

I assumed because Shapie said he talked to the folks at Log Cabin they would have told him if a spring was available.

He didn't mention that they said they could replace it for him.

 

[Sharpie44]

Nope the guys at log cabin didn't have one and i called Dixie and they didn't have one. They said they probably wouldn't be getting one in anytime soon. So i think I'm out of luck.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Those locks are handicapped by poor geometry and just barely spark at best. I think I'd be sorely tempted to convert it to percussion. :haha:

 

[Sharpie44]

do you have any info on how to do that? I like flint but I had to set it off with a wick just to clear the barrel(Basically turns it into a snap matchlock)I called a few more places today and no one has the part so It looks like it a paper weight at the moment. I would be perfectly happy with it if I could make it percussion.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Pretty easy to convert the way many, many original flintlocks were converted. Obtain a drum & nipple, 5/16x24 thread, then drill out your touch hole with a proper tap drill and thread it.
Discard the frizzen and spring, cut off the pan and notch the lockplate to fit snugly under the nipple drum. You can try to find a replacement percussion hammer but I like to retain the original flint hammer. Fit a short piece of 5/16" square key stock to the hammer to be retained by the original top jaw screw. You can recess the nose of that piece with a 1/4" drill bit and flatten the bottom of the recess with a dremel but an end mill will do a neater job.
I can't say I've ever seen an 1805 pistol converted to percussion but many flintlocks were.
:thumbsup:

 

[ol vern]

Check with Dixie Gun works they probably will have a spring
that will fit your lock.

 

[Sharpie44]

called them and they don't have one and said that they probably wouldn't be getting one in.

 

[Sharpie44]

I'm going to give the wedge Idea a shot.

 

[Vairochana]

I suggested TOTW as I recently had to replace a sear spring on a flintlock,
They did not stock the particular model but as they have life sized pictures it was easy to select the mos similar.
It is now in place and working.

 

[rickystl]

That's strange. They show the Mainspring listed in their 2011 catalog. $35.00. Can't remember what page it's on. It listed every part for the lock.

 

[bob308]

i got one new from navy arms. they still sell the h-f rifles.

 

[Dphar]

Nope the guys at log cabin didn't have one and i called Dixie and they didn't have one. They said they probably wouldn't be getting one in anytime soon. So i think I'm out of luck.

Take or send it to someone who understands flintlocks and have it fixed.
It likely needs the frizzen faced or at least hardened and the rest of the lock looked over and tuned.
Drum and nipple conversion is a bad idea.
Dan

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Nope the guys at log cabin didn't have one and i called Dixie and they didn't have one. They said they probably wouldn't be getting one in anytime soon. So i think I'm out of luck.

Take or send it to someone who understands flintlocks and have it fixed.
It likely needs the frizzen faced or at least hardened and the rest of the lock looked over and tuned.
Drum and nipple conversion is a bad idea.
Dan

Ditto to Dan. If the spring is actually made of spring steel, it can be fixed, send the lock to someone that knows what they are doing, Zonie's idea of the wedge is a good idea if there is an emergency and you have to shoot the gun but, as he said, it can result in a broken spring, then where are you? If it needs other work then the person doing your spring work will be able to identify what needs to be done and get it into good shape. Percussioning is a last resort, especially with a weak mainspring - it may not bust a cap if it is weak.

 

[flibuste]

The problem is due mainly to the poor geometry of the lock : the angle of the cock is wrong.

As said previously, a wedge in the spring will help : very easy fix.

However the real durable improvement would come from a modification of the hammer :

compare with yours and you will see that the flint is now facing the vent as it should be.


regards

 

[matt denison]

Filibuste has it about half right. I can see where the cock has been modified to get the flint pointing down into the pan.

I've had some experience with these locks. My prognosis for them is not good. They suffer from some serious problems with no easy fix. I have had a couple come across my bench but not anymore. I pass and this is why:

Look very closely at the first picture and notice that the main spring is barely, JUST barely still sitting on the toe of the tumbler. If that hammer goes forward one more degree then the spring will slip off and then you have real trouble. Also notice that there isn't a stop (or ledge) on the back side of the cock to stop it where it should. The cock should stop when the stop ledge hits the top of the lock plate. This is a fatal flaw in these locks. The forward movement of the cock is arrested by the back of the tumbler slamming into the bridle. That is not a good thing. It will eventually fail. So, this lock has a very short throw and no follow through. The flint basically bangs into the frizzen just enough to pop it open and then stops. Adding a stop to the cock and relieving the bridle to attain more forward movement isn't possible because of the main spring/tumbler relationship. The choices are to live with it as-is or live with it as-is. I'm sure that Filibuste's fix helps get some sparks into the pan but will never make this a "good" lock. Sorry.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Nope the guys at log cabin didn't have one and i called Dixie and they didn't have one. They said they probably wouldn't be getting one in anytime soon. So i think I'm out of luck.

Take or send it to someone who understands flintlocks and have it fixed.
It likely needs the frizzen faced or at least hardened and the rest of the lock looked over and tuned.
Drum and nipple conversion is a bad idea.
Dan

Dan could you explain to me just why a drum & nipple is a "bad idea"? It's only been used to convert a few million flintlocks and for a few million more percussions originally built that way and for the brand new guns being built that way today. I'm sure there is some mysterious reason that you don't like them but I don't think that makes it a "bad idea". Personally I've had far fewer problems with nipple drum ignition than with any patent breech I've ever used. I do acknowledge that a patent breech is stronger but I've never found a nipple drum wanting with any loads a rational person would ever shoot. In this application 50 grains of 2f behind a .570 ball will produce a breech pressure of only about 3,000 psi. Even 100 grains, if anyone is crazy enough to fire that from a pistol, would produce only about 6,000 psi and that is no test of strength.
I'd either use that pistol as a wall hanger or convert it to percussion.

 

[Stubert]

I have the same pistol, I put a cock on it from Pedersoli's Pennsylvania rifle Flinter, same lock, diff.cock. It went right on and it can be bent to change the angle.