.58 Cal Loads for Buffalo

[FishDFly]

The things I read about Custer I reason he was a fool!
B.

He graduated last in his class at West Point. :td:

Off topic, he may have been last in his class, but how many youngsters at that time were accepted into West Point and graduated.

If you read "My Life on the Plains or, Personal Experiences with Indians" by General George Armstrong Custer you might have a different opinion of him. He uses words in his writing that most folks today would need a dictionary to understand.

The book is a well worth read and you can learn a lot from it.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Thanks all for the info. I don't see anyone saying conicals are superior to PRB enough that I need to shift my focus. I'll keep working on the PRB load and shot placement.

I can't even see a bison heart with iron sights at 75 yards, much less 100. I'll be doing some aim small/miss small on 8" gongs at those distances.

That is more encouraging than your original post. I cannot imagine going on your first buff hunt with a new rifle and you being uncertain of it's (or your own) capabilities. Do keep practicing. You will not be shooting for paper 'X'. Place your sight where you know the heart to be. Results and pics expected. Good luck.

 

[tenngun]

:thumbsup: over a third of his class didn’t graduate at all. He was a thrill seeker for sure, ran up enough demerits that he was one shy of dismissal early in the year, went the rest without one demerit. He got a bad rap because of PC culture, but he had that careful recklessness that we celebrate in George Patton, and for that matter in Grant or Lee. Boldness matters.

 

[Carl Fowler III]

Reckless or fearless? Let us not forget that the battle of Gettysburg may have turned out much different if Custer hadn't charged into an overwhelming Jeb Stuarts calvary intent on collapsing the Unions right flank!
This battle was a decisive blow to Lee and kept the him from entering any further North of the Mason/Dixon line!

 

[mahkagari]

Progress update. 100 grains FFG with .057 ball and .018 pre-lubed patch is consistently on paper at 50 yards and my shoulder is killing me. Well, it's pretty tender anyhow. Elevation correction is more about me getting to know the gun it seems. Had my punch and mallet to work on the windage, but need to figure out where I'm inconsistent first and then I'll move out to 75.

 

[BrownBear]

...my shoulder is killing me.

Easy to understand if you're shooting from a bench and nestling the butt into the same spot you do with a modern rifle. Hooked butts are intended to go out on your arm a little and OUTSIDE the shoulder joint. Feels kinda weird at first, but it sure takes the bite out.

 

[mahkagari]

...my shoulder is killing me.

Easy to understand if you're shooting from a bench and nestling the butt into the same spot you do with a modern rifle. Hooked butts are intended to go out on your arm a little and OUTSIDE the shoulder joint. Feels kinda weird at first, but it sure takes the bite out.

I'll give it a try.

 

[Grimord]

When I shoot my .58;s from the bench with hunting loads, I use a sissy pad on my shoulder/upper arm. Once I get my load tuned in, I practice my off hand shooting. I don't seem to notice the recoil as much when shooting off hand, and never notice it when I am shooting at game.

 

[BrownBear]

When shooting big modern "African" boomers I use a standing benchrest so my whole body can rock and roll with the recoil. If not available and I have to sit, I raise the rifle rest so high on the bench that I sit fully upright to shoot. Much the same effect as your upper body can rock back to absorb recoil. Except a really big boomer can rock you so far you'll roll back off the seat if you don't watch out.

However you do it with boomers, if your body can rock back the recoil is fine. Biggest mistake I see guys making at the bench is having their rifle down low and leaning into them like so many modern shooters with pipsqueek guns. Though I don't count a 58 as a boomer, the upright or standing rests can sure stretch a day.

 

[nhmoose]

For your shoulder get a Past recoil shield you wear. We call it a chicken pad but it gets rid of the hurt and more important the beginning of a flinch!!!

 

[mahkagari]

For your shoulder get a Past recoil shield you wear. We call it a chicken pad but it gets rid of the hurt and more important the beginning of a flinch!!!

Got one of those before I finished the build!

 

[Irish lad]

I load 110 grains of Swiss 1.5 in my custom .58 Hawken with a .570 ball, .0020 patch and a felt wad over the powder.
The barrel is a 36” Green Mountain 1 in 70 twist.
The gun is zeroed 1” high at 75 yards and with my eyes I would not shoot past 125.
Best of luck with the buff.
Irish

 

[mahkagari]

Update:

Working with 100gr of FFG Pyrodex with .018" lubed patch on a .570 RB. Got down from >12" groups at 50yds to

 

[azmntman]

Have you tried different conicals? I know my pop was shooting Great Plains by Hornady in his Invest Arms Hawkenish rifle and when he shot at the "test" range before the hunt he hit bull at 100yds off hand :shocked2: .

I have cow hunt in a week, my .58 is hitting 3-4" groups at 100 with PRB. 80 gr Blk MZ and oiled patch (sorry Dutch no time to accuraize this one yet).

 

[mahkagari]

Have you tried different conicals?

Conicals are just too pricey and don't have time to work up the load. It's on the "list".

I have cow hunt in a week, my .58 is hitting 3-4" groups at 100 with PRB.

Buff cow? Good luck!

 

[Zonie]

Don't be afraid to try powder loads smaller than the 100 grains your using.

These big patched roundballs kill from mass trauma as much or more than they do with velocity.
Remember, that .570 ball is larger than many modern bullets expand to and your .570 ball will expand even more when it hits the game animal.

Sometimes, less is more and using less powder can greatly improve accuracy.

Give a 80 grain powder load a try and see what happens.

Also, don't forget to check the condition of your fired patches. If they are ripped or badly burned where the ball tried to meet the barrel you will never get good accuracy.

All that said, I don't think I would hunt with a gun that couldn't shoot a 6 inch diameter group or smaller at 75 yards.

Remenber, accuracy is the name of the game when it comes to muzzleloaders and hunting.

Oh. Use a damp (not wet) patch on your cleaning jag to wipe the fouling out of the bore. Do this at least every 3rd shot. Many target shooters will say do it after each shot.

When you do this wiping, run the damp patch down the bore in one smooth, moderately slow stroke.
Let it rest at the breech for a few seconds and then slowly pull it back out of the barrel.
Do NOT pump the rod and jag up and down. That is a first class way to knock the fouling down into the breech where it will cause ignition problems.

Have fun. :thumbsup:

 

[azmntman]

Geez I didnt see you are using PRB :redface:

I agree with Zonie, start at 70 and up 5 at a time. 80 is the most accurate for my rifle. And no, I'm after cow elk not buffalo. Now that I'm older I have way enough points to draw a buffalo tag but now that I'm older I have no cash for the tag :redface: $1,100.00 in AZ for a bull and I MUST shoot a bull.

Dad used a conical for his buff but I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a PRB under 75 yds. They smack stuff HARD and once ya get through the hide a buff is JUST LIKE AN ELK. 80 gr PRB has always passed through elk for me, even with a shoulder hit.

 

[mahkagari]

Don't be afraid to try powder loads smaller than the 100 grains your using.

Yeah, once I can differentiate what is me vs. the gun, I'll experiment with that factor.

All that said, I don't think I would hunt with a gun that couldn't shoot a 6 inch diameter group or smaller at 75 yards.

I'm sure the GUN can. What can be said about the operator is TBD.

Also, don't forget to check the condition of your fired patches. If they are ripped or badly burned where the ball tried to meet the barrel you will never get good accuracy.

What would I correct there? Lately, all I have been seeing is smoldering remnants of patches.

 

[BrownBear]

...all I have been seeing is smoldering remnants of patches.

That may be the source of your accuracy issues. I'd experiment with a different lube, and likely a thicker patch. They should be more or less intact.

 

[excess650]

What would I correct there? Lately, all I have been seeing is smoldering remnants of patches.

My patches, regardless of caliber (.45, .50, .58, .62) are intact enough to be loaded and shot again.

Last fall I was watching a friend shoot his .54 or .58 and it seemed to be all over the paper at 50 yards. I SAW him flinching, so suggested that maybe I should take a couple of shots. I was closer, but not what I would call a group. When the firing line was clear, I found patches and they were blown.

Since it seemed snug enough for a hunting load, I loaded one of his lubed patches (mink oil)into the bore, and then followed it up with a PRB. The blown patch problem went away, the gun/load grouped, and it remained field loadable with the under barrel rod.

I've since shot my .45 with what I regard as way too loose. I had forgotten my range rod, so was dealing with a limp delrin rod normally used only for cleaning my 42" barreled .50. I decided to try one of my flannel cleaning patches. They are decidedly soft/loose compared to pillow ticking or duck cloth. Regardless, I lubed with mink oil and cut at the muzzle after thumbing the ball/patch into the bore. I had already put bits and pieces of lubed pillow ticking in the bore, and then proceeded to shoot. It shot a couple of inches low, and didn't group as well compared to my normal, tight (requires short starter) ball/patch, but would have been fine for a follow up at 50 yards or less. The recovered flannel patches were frayed, rifling clearly visible, but not cut/burned/blown.