.58 caliber HEAVY conicals???

[Paul R]

I thought this forum was for 'traditional' muzzle loaders.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Yep! I use to love recoil. would shoot a .458 win mag all day like it was a .22, would shoot hundreds of 300 win mag rounds prairie dog huntin.
would shoot trap pulling both barrels on a 12 gauge at the same time. heck if I could have lifted it I would have made a shoulder stock for my howitzer.

Then one day I detached the vitrious in my eye. then arthritis set in and both shoulders went to heck.

So my advice is enjoy the ride while it lasts.....because you can't outrun time.
It catches us all!

 

[tenngun]

I think Lyman offer a 6 or 650...you might need custom to get a 700.... Going after naghas or sperm whales are ya?

thanks for the info about Lyman.650 would be better. No, no sperm whales, but i am just a fan of heavier bullets.Its my thing. I appreciate your useful info.
I ment no insult to you and am sorry I did not know you were shooting African rifles. I have never shot one my self but saw them on the gun deck of the Constitution :haha: I live in the ozarks and nothing around here walks far after being hit with a .50 and I know a lot of boys hunt around here with .45 and smaller. I hit the gym every now and then but have pretty much given up shooting my .54 Leman with 70 grains and prb as it kicks too much. I spect your gun doesn't have an american cresent butt plate an 1 1/4 wide.

 

[TFoley]

its obviously a typographical error. it meant 110-120 grains of pyrodex and a 460 grain minie just doesnt do the trick for me. id like a heavier bullet and i found one in a South African shop online.

Hmmm, well, I calculize that a 700gr bullet over 1209gr of Pyrodex RS [that's the same as 1330gr of FFG, BTW] would dish out something like 540 ft lbs of recoil energy...probably leave a bruise and squint for a bit, eh?
tac

 

[TFoley]

Yep! I use to love recoil. would shoot a .458 win mag all day like it was a .22, would shoot hundreds of 300 win mag rounds prairie dog huntin.
would shoot trap pulling both barrels on a 12 gauge at the same time. heck if I could have lifted it I would have made a shoulder stock for my howitzer.

Then one day I detached the vitrious in my eye. then arthritis set in and both shoulders went to heck.

Did you ever make the connection between what you did and was done to you as a result of what you did? Or did you just carry on doing it until it got done to you?

If you grasp my meaning... :wink:

tac

 

[tenngun]

Not having ever hunted in Africa I,m none to fimilure with how it goes. Most deer in this country are white tails that dont often run over 200 lbs(90kg) most closer to 100(40/5kg.) Mule deer dont often exceade 300 lbs. Elk(red deer) Run less then 600 lbs(260kg) as a rull and Moose (elk) not much bigger. Brown bear and Bison are bigger but very few are hunted. Smaller round balls do them well in range. Most are killed in the east at less then 50 meters and the west less then 120 meters.
What is most of your game?, and how far are most of your shots?
What do you think of as a traditional muzzleloader?How much did African guns from before thegreat age of classic double cape guns differ from our fusils, and classic pre kentucky european rifles?
I was only teasing about the sperm whales and nagahs.We all shoot what we think is fun. If you get a kick (no pun intended) out of lots of lead then more power to ya.

 

[Many Klatch]

I once, accidentally, shot off 1,400 grains of 2F in my Bess Carbine. It was a series of 100 grain blanks loaded one on top of another. This is one reason why I don't do tactical events anymore. The 1,400 grains knocked me back 6 feet and the recoil caused the trigger guard to hit my trigger finger hard enough that it took 7 stitches to close the wound. Luckily I had the good sense to hold the gun next to my hip when I shot it off or it would have taken my shoulder off. However the bruise took 3 months to go away.

On the good side, I now know that my Pedersoli Bess won't blow up with a 1,400 grain blank charge.

I have shot that same Bess Carbine with a 550 grain roundball and a double charge of 240 grains of 2F. I was shooting at a target at 230 yards and needed the extra oomph. That load will move you back and it will kick like a mule but it is survivable. However two or three of those a day is about all I like to experience.

So shoot as much powder as you want and as heavy a bullet as you want. But if you are going to do that, why don't you just get a blackpowder suppository gun like a 45/190 and really shoot a "man's" gun.

 

[nkbj]

Heavy bullets launched with black powder. I love it!

The only reason I got for not shooting heavier bullets in .58 is that there aint time enough to shoot the lighter ones. Right now that .458 bore TC New Englander is still singing sweet music.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I once, accidentally, shot off 1,400 grains of 2F in my Bess Carbine. It was a series of 100 grain blanks loaded one on top of another. This is one reason why I don't do tactical events anymore. The 1,400 grains knocked me back 6 feet and the recoil caused the trigger guard to hit my trigger finger hard enough that it took 7 stitches to close the wound. Luckily I had the good sense to hold the gun next to my hip when I shot it off or it would have taken my shoulder off. However the bruise took 3 months to go away.

On the good side, I now know that my Pedersoli Bess won't blow up with a 1,400 grain blank charge.

I have shot that same Bess Carbine with a 550 grain roundball and a double charge of 240 grains of 2F. I was shooting at a target at 230 yards and needed the extra oomph. That load will move you back and it will kick like a mule but it is survivable. However two or three of those a day is about all I like to experience.

So shoot as much powder as you want and as heavy a bullet as you want. But if you are going to do that, why don't you just get a blackpowder suppository gun like a 45/190 and really shoot a "man's" gun.

"accidentally" ?????????? :shocked2: :shocked2: :shocked2: :shocked2: :shocked2: :shocked2:

 

[smoothshooter]

How do you accidentally load 14 unfired blank loads ? ? ? ? ?

 

[BrownBear]

I left one thing out in my report on shooting those 750's:

They're getting long enough, I'd be a little concerned about barrel twist rate. That Big Boar has a 1:48, and while deeper than that a TC Hawken, the rifling is still a little shallow for my taste.

I wasn't so much looking for extra "power" in climbing the powder charge ladder, but improved accuracy. First shots with 80 grains only grouped 3-4" at 50 yards. Adding a lubed felt wad only improved that a little.

Groups shrank at 100 grains, and shrank more at 120 grains.

Dunno about anyone else's interpreter gland, but to me that sezz the 1:48 twist rate is a little slow for that weight. My concern is that with a velocity drop as range extends, groups will start to open up even with the larger powder charges. Lots more shooting required to confirm that, but I ran out of the 750's and stamina at about the same time. But I'm suspicious of the longer range accuracy based on similar experiences with too-slow twist rates in 50 and 54 caliber.

 

[Many Klatch]

How to accidentally shoot off 1400 grains of blackpower in blank loads at once.

Step one. Rainy day
Step two. Volley firing, shoulder to shoulder with the rear rank laying their guns on your shoulder.

Step three Couldn't hear or feel anything with all the noise and commotion. Kept loading on command along with everyone else.

Step four Finally realized that my barrel wasn't getting warm and borrowed a touch hole pick.

Step five Screwed up and didn't dump out the loads but I've never shot many blanks before so it wasn't anything I'd ever thought about.

Step six KABOOOOM

Started with 28 100 grain cartridges in my ammo box. Had 12 left when I checked after getting back from the emergency room. So 1,400 grains is a WAG.

I have never been hurt shooting live rounds, only blanks, so I quit shooting blanks they are dangerous.

 

[Claude Mathis]

How to accidentally shoot off 1400 grains of blackpower in blank loads at once.

Step three Couldn't hear or feel anything with all the noise and commotion. Kept loading on command along with everyone else.

You never noticed how far your ramrod wasn't going down the barrel after about TEN loads? :shocked2:

 

[coloradoclyde]

I doubt he noticed anything. It sounds like as soon as the first volley was fired he became a disoriented psychological casualty .

Some people are highly sensitive to stimuli overload.

 

[TFoley]

Not having ever hunted in Africa I,m none to fimilure with how it goes. Most deer in this country are white tails that dont often run over 200 lbs(90kg) most closer to 100(40/5kg.) Mule deer dont often exceade 300 lbs. Elk(red deer) Run less then 600 lbs(260kg) as a rull and Moose (elk) not much bigger. Brown bear and Bison are bigger but very few are hunted. Smaller round balls do them well in range. Most are killed in the east at less then 50 meters and the west less then 120 meters.
What is most of your game?, and how far are most of your shots?
What do you think of as a traditional muzzleloader?How much did African guns from before thegreat age of classic double cape guns differ from our fusils, and classic pre kentucky european rifles?
I was only teasing about the sperm whales and nagahs.We all shoot what we think is fun. If you get a kick (no pun intended) out of lots of lead then more power to ya.

Hey, Tenngun - 'snot me looking to re-arrange my physical shape shooting NORMUS loads, but our friend blckpowder50 who started the thread off.

My days of shooting big bullets are over, now that my Whitworth has gone to a new owner. One of Joe or Steve Polisar's beautiful 600gr swaged hexagonal bullets over 90gr of Swiss x 32 repeats engaged all my attention both at the time, and for a few days afterwards.

Best to you this festivating season!

tac

 

[Hefner]

Back in the late 1970's, one of our club members had a Morse boxlock .58 cal. After one match, he told us he and his dad made a mold of around 700 grains for a maxi-ball type bullet. He asked a couple of us if we wanted to try a shot. Being young and dumb we agreed to give it a try.

WOW !!! a 1/10th. of a pound of lead exiting a barrel created a lasting impression on all who tried shooting a 700 gr. slug that day.

Thank God for squirrel guns!!!1

 

[Many Klatch]

Claude, we weren't allowed to use our ramrods. They really don't want steel ramrods flying all over the field.

 

[nkbj]

Been watching with interest 'cause the rifled muskets with 48" twist have long been known for excellent accuracy. The British military P1853 with a fairly heavy paper patched smooth sided bullet used a 78" twist. http://www.collegehillarsenal.com/shop/product.php?productid=1025

 

[smoothshooter]

Probably a little extra excitement, and being caught up in the moment involved as well. I can see how that could happen under those circumstances. I have read about soldiers doing the same thing in battle.

 

[Dphar]

Why? Would anyone want to shoot a 700 gr bullet?
It serves no useful purpose. The next question would be is the rifle twisted for a bullet this heavy?
There are other questions as well.

Dan