.58 Enfield shooting erratic

[jmaynor]

I am shooting a Euro Arms .58 Enfield repro and have not been able to get a consistent grouping. I am using .57 roundballs, .05 patches and have tried both 50 and 60 grains of powder. None of the guys that I hunt have had any problems like this, but none are shooting a .58 caliber. If anyone could offer insight, it would be appreciated.

 

[Swampman]

The gun was designed to shoot hollow based minnie balls. You might try those. The rifling is pretty shallow in most import guns. That's why many of them won't group.

 

[Zonie]

Your using a .050 or a .005 thick patch?

IMO, .050 sounds way to thick with a .570 dia ball. In fact, I don't know if I could load it without a big mallet.
If I did use a mallet, there is a very good chanch that the patch would be torn as it enters the bore.

If you are using a .005 thick patch I feel it is too thin.
According to Dixie's Catalog, the rifleing groove depth is .006 and the patch needs to be thicker than the groove depth.

If you can find some .015 thick patches it may solve your problem.
If you have access to a WalMart, their blue/white or red/white striped pillow ticking is pure cotton and it is about .018 thick.
It might be just what your gun needs.

 

[kb466]

Yes, I think you will have better results shooting Minie balls--which it was designed for. Also, the rifling is shallow, but it was on the originals as well. The shallow rifling works well with Minies, but maybe not so well with patched balls.

 

[skeetabop]

Check the rear sight. I have a Euroarms Enfield also and the sights are fixed, but if you look at the rear sight, the base peice is welded, but the sight mounted on that (the flip up sight) can click over(left or right) with pressure from your thumb. It moves about 3 hairs.

 

[TFoley]

Hmmm. Won't group, eh? That's very strange, as many of us over here in the UK and the rest of Europe shoot these shallow groove guns at ranges out to 600 yards in the BP military match competition, as our Mr Minshall, who does just that on a weekly basis, would tell you. He might also be able to put you onto the article that either he or Mr Curtis wrote about making the P53 shoot, as well.

But not with round ball, as you note, they were not designed to shoot such stuff, but rather the 535gr Minie bullet, on top of between 55 and 65gr of whatever you can get where YOU live.
There are at least four different bullet moulds to try, but the one that shoots best will probably be one that throws a Minie bullet about 5 thou less then the bore - they seem to upset into the shallow rifling best, as indeed they were meant to in the first place.
A few years ago we tried RB in my Whitworth, just for a larf, as well as my pal's P-H P53. Never saw where the bullets went, but they sure as he** didn't hit the 3 foot square target on our 100yard sighting-in range.

Shoot what it is meant to shoot, and all with be well, I'm sure.

tac

 

[ResearchPress]

The article referred to above can be found at: Managing The Enfield

I have no experience of shooting the Enfield with anything but Minie bullets. I have seen postings from some who say they get acceptable results with patched round ball.

I use 75 grains of a 'medium shooting powder' sold here in the UK. It is not as 'powerful' as Swiss but does enough for target shooting purposes which is my interest. The fouling stays soft and I can shoot a match course of fire (13 shots) without cleaning. This is with a approx. 560 grain RCBS Minie bullet in a 1:48 twist commerical short rifle.

David

 

[silverfox]

Same here. I haven't tried RB in my enfield. I use the Rapine mold for about a 515 gr. minnie and don't have to size. Lube with a mixture of beeswax and borebutter and can shoot most of the day without having to clean the bore.
Last time on the bench at 100 yards it placed 6 of 8 shots in one ragged hole all in under 2" circle.
Get the right minnie and start making your rifle shoot like it should. I use 55gr. 3F Goex.
Fox :hatsoff:

 

[jmaynor]

Thanks for all the help. I will try to locate some minnies to try.

Some friends had led me to use the RB based on the 1 in 72" twist. Does that really matter?

I would really like to get some confidence in this gun. I built it a couple of years ago from a kit, but used the brass pieces that I recovered from a shipwreck while scubadiving.

Thanks again!!

 

[BLAHMAN]

Call up the guys at Log Cabin and they'll set you up with the correct stuff that you will need.

 

[mountainman_270]

I am new to BP shooting, about 3 years, so please take whatever I say here with the appropriate salt! I have a Parkerhale Two Band Enfield which shoots ok(4"-5") groups with RB(.575) without patches. The minnies, however cluster into 2.5" groups. They would probably be better if I had more time to practice. I shoot 505 grn minnies I pour from a Lee Precision mold. I find that with 90 - 100 grains of powder(RS) the groups are accurate and consistent. However, when I use heavier charges the groups present 1 - 2 flyers. I believe it's the skirt being to thin. Anyways, I melted down the remaining RBs for minnies.

 

[Big John]

Thats probaly the problem, or stay with lower charges, put some lube in the base hole, may help.

 

[Zonie]

Can't say I would shoot a unpatched round ball in my PH guns, or any of my other guns either.

Without a patch, a round ball will never obturate enough to seal the bore so it basically is just a loose round ball rattleing down the barrel towards the target. This is much like a unpatched ball in a smoothbore and will shoot poorly. To add insult to injury, it will lead the rifleing to boot.

As for heavy powder charges opening up the group size when shooting Minie' bullets, I agree totally. The thin skirt will be blown out as the bullet leaves the barrel deflecting the bullet in unpredictable directions.

Some Minie' bullets have very thick skirts to help prevent this but whether a particular gun will shoot them well can only be deteremined by trying them.

 

[strongarm]

I would not recommend any lube in the base. I don't know who ever though of that one but it doesn't work and if you try it be prepared to have the lube ruin your powder charge. There has been some testing done with a felt wad under the bullet and I suppose if that were done some lube bewteen the wad and the bottom of the bullet may not hurt.

You may also consider paper patches some of your bullets in order to reduce the charge and yet maintain barrel pressure. I use TOPS cigaretter papers and then lightly(and I mean Lightly) lube the paper before seating the bullet.

 

[Big John]

Lubing the base of a minnie bullet is a common practice to help accuracy, many come already lubed bases ,no problem with the powder since the lube is melted after ignition. As for wads with minnie bullets, there's a horrendous idea.

 

[mountainman_270]

With my .50 I always use pillow ticking, but the .575 RB is actually snug in my Enfield without a patch. Besides, I can't find patches thin enough. I am getting a new mold that will produce a smaller ball, a .570, and I will continue the search for a thinner and yet strong enough patch. As far as the minnies go, I use a little Bore Butter in the base, for ease of cleaning. I found that accuracy did not change with or without lube, clean-up, however, did! The Enfield is an outstandingly accurate rifle with minnies and many good quality conicals (My rifle also love Hornady's Great Plains Bullets). I continue to experiment. Will the "work" ever cease... I hope not.