.62 caliber military muskets (Rev war)

[Mason Ponton]

Are there any military muskets in .62 specifically not fusils or fowlers? And/or where there ever bayonets retrofitted to fusils/fowlers commonly enough to make it count-ish? And where plug bayonets a thing ever in the revolution? Thanks!

 

[Artificer]

Are there any military muskets in .62 specifically not fusils or fowlers?

In around 1756, British Ordnance pretty much standardized their "Carbine Bore" at .65/.66. (I've seen original documentation stating both sizes, though .66 may be more frequent.) Prior to that time, the term "Carbine" was used for the length of the arm rather than bore size. They used a paper cartridge wrapped .62 cal. ball in them.

And/or where there ever bayonets retrofitted to fusils/fowlers commonly enough to make it count-ish?

Absolutely. To make up for the flared muzzles on the ends of fowlers, they did several different kinds of modifications to the rear of the bayonet sockets. Some had a thumbscrew, some had special springs fitted and there were other types of modifications. This was primarily in the early stages of the Rev War until they got captured British Arms or received French Muskets.

And where plug bayonets a thing ever in the revolution? Thanks!

A very small percentage and again early in the war, but not very common at all.

Gus

 

[Mason Ponton]

Cool! Thanks alot! Any other carbines or officers muskets or just full thength muskets in general you could think of? I particularly appreciate the detail about them using. 62 caliber ball in their larger carbines! I heard about a 1740 german muskets using .62 is this true?

 

[Artificer]

Cool! Thanks alot! Any other carbines or officers muskets or just full thength muskets in general you could think of?

Since you asked about bayonet usage, I will forego the myriad examples of cavalry carbines that didn't use bayonets and stick to what British Ordnance termed as "Carbines for Land Service."

As of the pattern year manufacture of 1756, the Serjeant's/Artillery/Highlander Carbines had the Carbine Bore of .66 cal with 37 inch long barrels and fitted with bayonets. Though modified slightly in the decades to come, they remained in that caliber and barrel length for decades.

Depending on the source one uses as to the pattern dates of 1758 or 1760, British Ordnance came out with a Light Infantry Carbine with 42 inch barrels in .66 cal. and also fitted with bayonets. These were the same length as the Short Land Pattern Muskets.

Officers Fusils were civilian made arms and thus had more variations. Though most came fitted with bayonets, some didn't. They might range from .60 to .67 caliber. An Officer was wise when he had his Fusil made up in .66 cal. so he could use the standard issued Carbine Ammo with which to fight. If he wanted to use it for sporting purposes, he would use some kind of small shot and load it like a fowler.

I particularly appreciate the detail about them using. 62 caliber ball in their larger carbines!

The ball had to be smaller because when wrapped with paper to make a cartridge, the paper took up bore space.

I heard about a 1740 german muskets using .62 is this true?

Sorry I can't help you with German Muskets as they are not in my field of study.

Gus

 

[Mason Ponton]

Thanks lots Gus! Alot of people seem reluctant to share their knowledge these days so I greatly appreciate it and would love to return the favor if I can. Anyone making replicas of these muskets? (I'm not scared of indian muskets btw) I know military heritage has a carbine but I think its a later model without the capacity for a bayonet.

 

[Artificer]

Thanks lots Gus! Alot of people seem reluctant to share their knowledge these days so I greatly appreciate it and would love to return the favor if I can. Anyone making replicas of these muskets? (I'm not scared of indian muskets btw) I know military heritage has a carbine but I think its a later model without the capacity for a bayonet.

Mason,

I just noticed by your message count that you are fairly new to the forum, so WELCOME ABOARD!!

Folks here on this forum are not reluctant to share their knowledge, especially with people like you who are courteous enough to say, "Thank you." Courtesy and respect still count for a lot here.

OK, I was a reenactor Private in the Major's Company of the 42nd Royal Highland Regiment, the Black Watch, and we were originally armed with earlier and 1756 pattern Carbines during the FIW. So, I have a special interest and bias for them.

I have enough Scottish blood that "being thrifty" means I squeeze a penny until Lincoln screams. Still, I will spend more to get something good the first time.

Though the company is no longer in business, a good condition used North Star West Officers Fusil is still the best gun of this type to buy. They occasionally come up on gun broker or here or other places. I had saved my pennies and was about ready to order one new, but I was just a few weeks late. These came in 16 gauge which fits inside the period bore diameter AND you can easily get wads and shot cards for them. By far, that is the one I most strongly suggest you buy, even if you have to wait to find one.

I looked at the India made ones and though the price is right, the quality was/is just not there in my opinion. This even though I'm a well trained custom military armorer and can fix most problems that come up with them.

Oh, since you are new to the forum, may I suggest you hit the "reply" button when answering a post. This sends an automatic notice you replied and I will notice it quicker.

You are most welcome.

Gus

 

[BatBoy]

Thanks lots Gus! Alot of people seem reluctant to share their knowledge these days so I greatly appreciate it and would love to return the favor if I can. Anyone making replicas of these muskets? (I'm not scared of indian muskets btw) I know military heritage has a carbine but I think its a later model without the capacity for a bayonet.

I ordered a 65 caliber Artillery Carbine from Loyalist Arms at the end of September. I should have it at the end of November it in December.

 

[Mason Ponton]

Mason,

I just noticed by your message count that you are fairly new to the forum, so WELCOME ABOARD!!

Folks here on this forum are not reluctant to share their knowledge, especially with people like you who are courteous enough to say, "Thank you." Courtesy and respect still count for a lot here.

OK, I was a reenactor Private in the Major's Company of the 42nd Royal Highland Regiment, the Black Watch, and we were originally armed with earlier and 1756 pattern Carbines during the FIW. So, I have a special interest and bias for them.

I have enough Scottish blood that "being thrifty" means I squeeze a penny until Lincoln screams. Still, I will spend more to get something good the first time.

Though the company is no longer in business, a good condition used North Star West Officers Fusil is still the best gun of this type to buy. They occasionally come up on gun broker or here or other places. I had saved my pennies and was about ready to order one new, but I was just a few weeks late. These came in 16 gauge which fits inside the period bore diameter AND you can easily get wads and shot cards for them. By far, that is the one I most strongly suggest you buy, even if you have to wait to find one.

I looked at the India made ones and though the price is right, the quality was/is just not there in my opinion. This even though I'm a well trained custom military armorer and can fix most problems that come up with them.

Oh, since you are new to the forum, may I suggest you hit the "reply" button when answering a post. This sends an automatic notice you replied and I will notice it quicker.

You are most welcome.

Gus

Thanks again so much! Sorry if I implied people here aren't willing to share. This community is awesome! Lots of people like you have been very helpful here! I'm very new to flintlocks. I've been into this hobby a while but only either percussion or match-not-lock (handgonne). I just recently inherited a flintlock pedersoli from my late grandfather in law. He shared with me alot of knowledge and reinvigorated my interests in these times and guns. I'm trying to simplify things in my life especially since now I'm a father of 2. I can't afford to shoot my millsurp collection anymore so I'm selling them to buy a musket that shares the same caliber with my hondgonne for price and convince. (Partially because what's left of my collection isn't worth much ). I have a bunch of lead to cast and I can make bp for peanuts. Specifically though I'm looking for something with those qualities I mentioned, bayonet, .62, revolution etc. But along with that something a mountain man might have (besides the rifle I now have) also I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of later day saints (Mormon) with many pioneer ancestors that served in the revolution and 1812 and am interested in the Nauvoo legion, Mormon battalion and generally just what they may have had as homesteaders and militiamen.

 

[Artificer]

But along with that something a mountain man might have (besides the rifle I now have)

Depends on what period mountain man was as to whether an artillery carbine would be correct for you.

Had you been an "Overmountain Man" in the AWI and with General Dan Morgan at the Battle of Cowpens, you could have collected one from captured British Arms.

If you are talking about the Rocky Mountain Man period, this carbine would have been WAY too early.

Gus

 

[Mason Ponton]

I ordered a 65 caliber Artillery Carbine from Loyalist Arms at the end of September. I should have it at the end of November it in December.

Let me know how it goes! I might be getting something like that soon

 

[Mason Ponton]

Depends on what period mountain man was as to whether an artillery carbine would be correct for you.

Had you been an "Overmountain Man" in the AWI and with General Dan Morgan at the Battle of Cowpens, you could have collected one from captured British Arms.

If you are talking about the Rocky Mountain Man period, this carbine would have been WAY too early.

Gus

Are there later muskets/carbines from 1812 or Mexican American war? Thanks so much!

 

[Artificer]

Are there later muskets/carbines from 1812 or Mexican American war? Thanks so much!

Well, pretty much the last chance for an American to have gotten a British Carbine would have been the War of 1812. Going to have to do some checking on what Patterns would have been available.

The Mexican Army bought surplus British India Pattern muskets, but no carbines with bayonets for land service.

Gus

 

[Mason Ponton]

Well, pretty much the last chance for an American to have gotten a British Carbine would have been the War of 1812. Going to have to do some checking on what Patterns would have been available.

The Mexican Army bought surplus British India Pattern muskets, but no carbines with bayonets for land service.

Gus

Thanks again Gus! Can't wait to get my hands on something. Don't have the funds yet. I should by the end of this week. But still need to shop around.

 

[Billy-by-gosh]

Are there any military muskets in .62 specifically not fusils or fowlers? And/or where there ever bayonets retrofitted to fusils/fowlers commonly enough to make it count-ish? And where plug bayonets a thing ever in the revolution? Thanks!

Yes, the Prussian Army had a .62 cal in their 1801 issued musket.
Some may have been brought over to the USA for the 1812 war - don't have specific proof for that tho'.
I've not bought yet from this vendor, but some interesting historical tidbits: German 1801 "Sharpshooter" Infantry Light Musket

"They reduced to the calibre to .62, a calibre common with hunting fowling pieces. ...made the barrel lighter and a lighter ramrod ...another improvement was addition of front and rear sights...also had a sculpted cheekpiece added to the butt of the stock."
Please see the website militaryheritage.com/musket32.htm for MORE information.

 

[Artificer]

Thanks again Gus! Can't wait to get my hands on something. Don't have the funds yet. I should by the end of this week. But still need to shop around.

Well, glad I checked as I learned something I had not really studied yet.

The India Pattern Serjeant's Carbine P1795/6 used in the War of 1812 with 37 inch barrel and bayonet, went all the way up to 1825 as far as I quickly found.

https://www.marks4antiques.com/apa/VOLUNTEER-SERGEANT-S-CARBINE-24ec3d
https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-275.html
You are most welcome.

Gus

 

[Mason Ponton]

Well, glad I checked as I learned something I had not really studied yet.

The India Pattern Serjeant's Carbine P1795/6 used in the War of 1812 with 37 inch barrel and bayonet, went all the way up to 1825 as far as I quickly found.

View attachment 168856

https://www.marks4antiques.com/apa/VOLUNTEER-SERGEANT-S-CARBINE-24ec3d
https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-275.html
You are most welcome.

Gus

Geese just a fountain if knowledge! I got a couple more questions then I'll leave you alone . How long did fowlers and chasses serve? Did any make it through to the end in substantial numbers? (I'm sure some officers kept them) Was it more common for light infantry/militias to have the carbines you suggested than those? Because I'm debating on the 1740 light infantry or a fudil de chasse sorta thing, and I can't quite decide. I really like the bayonet, if I was a longhunter I'd rather have a spear-gun for fighting bears, Indians or bandits than just a tomahawk (though I'd have that too for other obvious reasons). Anyway if you could point me to articles, books, videos or whatever else for more information that would be just the best! Thanks so much again Gus! This is the best forum on the net!

 

[Artificer]

Geese just a fountain if knowledge! I got a couple more questions then I'll leave you alone . How long did fowlers and chasses serve? Did any make it through to the end in substantial numbers? (I'm sure some officers kept them) Was it more common for light infantry/militias to have the carbines you suggested than those?

Hi Mason,

This post of yours tickled me. Don't worry about asking too many questions, but if you are going off on fast 90 degree turns in the conversation, I at least need a turn signal. Chuckle. Are we back to the Rev War (commonly abbreviated as the AWI on this forum for American War for Independence)?

Are you looking for a comparison between a French Hunting Gun or French Military Musket compared to a British Light Infantry Carbine? You lost me there, so I need a bit more explanation.

Because I'm debating on the 1740 light infantry or a fudil de chasse sorta thing, and I can't quite decide. I really like the bayonet, if I was a longhunter I'd rather have a spear-gun for fighting bears, Indians or bandits than just a tomahawk (though I'd have that too for other obvious reasons). Anyway if you could point me to articles, books, videos or whatever else for more information that would be just the best! Thanks so much again Gus! This is the best forum on the net!

I think you might enjoy the following article, that unless I'm way off base, may be helpful to you.

Please scroll down and look for the following two guns:

Hunting Fowler, c. 1730-1760
The profile of this long, lean fowler has a close resemblance to the French Fusil de Chasse.

and

English Commercial Hunting Fowler, c. 1750-1760 (And which happens to be in original .62 cal.)

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/hunting-guns-in-colonial-america/
One also has to recognize one's own tastes, desires and biases and admit that when giving advice.

I not only don't like the look of the French guns, but I've tried three of them and everyone smacked me in the face under recoil. Other people don't have that problem.

Gus

 

[Mason Ponton]

I'm glad your tickled . I guess that means I'm speaking correctly. Sorry about the no turn signal , comes from drowsy driving. Some of my posts have been in the middle of the night while I care for my new daughter . Anyway I guess I have too many conditions because I'm basically looking for something that realistically and unironicly was around mostly unchanged for two generations and vast regions. But I guess I was talking about maybe the northwest trade gun is what I'm looking for? Besides the bayonet thing... It seems to be the winchester lever gun of those times but I might be wrong (both AWI and 1812 and beyond). I've only heard about it yesterday. Sorry for my rambling but to cut it short I'm looking for something like that or the light infantry carbine you showed me that lasted from 1770sish to 1840sish. Part of me just wants to go with a 1795 springfield or 1816 to get it overwith because of my heritage, but I love AWI history alot and it would be so convenient to have one in the caliber of my handgonne. This needs to be my last gun for a long while and I have a very limited budget. Anyway thanks so so much again Gus!!! Thanks for indulging me and my obsessive rambling, jerky driving and newly reawakend hobby!

 

[Mason Ponton]

Hi Mason,

This post of yours tickled me. Don't worry about asking too many questions, but if you are going off on fast 90 degree turns in the conversation, I at least need a turn signal. Chuckle. Are we back to the Rev War (commonly abbreviated as the AWI on this forum for American War for Independence)?

Are you looking for a comparison between a French Hunting Gun or French Military Musket compared to a British Light Infantry Carbine? You lost me there, so I need a bit more explanation.



I think you might enjoy the following article, that unless I'm way off base, may be helpful to you.

Please scroll down and look for the following two guns:

Hunting Fowler, c. 1730-1760
The profile of this long, lean fowler has a close resemblance to the French Fusil de Chasse.

and

English Commercial Hunting Fowler, c. 1750-1760 (And which happens to be in original .62 cal.)

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/hunting-guns-in-colonial-america/
One also has to recognize one's own tastes, desires and biases and admit that when giving advice.

I not only don't like the look of the French guns, but I've tried three of them and everyone smacked me in the face under recoil. Other people don't have that problem.

Gus

Woops i pushed the wrong reply button again . Its very early...

 

[Artificer]

I'm glad your tickled . I guess that means I'm speaking correctly. Sorry about the no turn signal , comes from drowsy driving. Some of my posts have been in the middle of the night while I care for my new daughter . Anyway I guess I have too many conditions because I'm basically looking for something that realistically and unironicly was around mostly unchanged for two generations and vast regions. But I guess I was talking about maybe the northwest trade gun is what I'm looking for? Besides the bayonet thing... It seems to be the winchester lever gun of those times but I might be wrong (both AWI and 1812 and beyond). I've only heard about it yesterday. Sorry for my rambling but to cut it short I'm looking for something like that or the light infantry carbine you showed me that lasted from 1770sish to 1840sish. Part of me just wants to go with a 1795 springfield or 1816 to get it overwith because of my heritage, but I love AWI history alot and it would be so convenient to have one in the caliber of my handgonne. This needs to be my last gun for a long while and I have a very limited budget. Anyway thanks so so much again Gus!!! Thanks for indulging me and my obsessive rambling, jerky driving and newly reawakend hobby!

Either the Carbine or the Northwest Trade Gun would seem to suit your purposes.

Now comes the hard part of choosing between them and I can't help you with that. GRIN.

You are most welcome.

Gus