69 -70 caliber rifled musket ID help

[Pablom]

Hi, here's the old rifle I have. It shoots pretty nice. Any help identifying would be GREAT!!! I haven't had it long and was thanking about hunting deer with it this fall.

I'll add a bunch of pics of gun and close ups of proofs and markings. The lock is not marked like US rifles, I'm guessing European, but can't find much on web.

Thanks Paul ( AKA Pablom )

 

[Pablom]

Sorry folks I can't put pictures on this site. Won't allow me to paste em.

Paul

 

[hawkeye2]

Try this, see if it helps. You can't cut & past edirectly to this forum.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/306852/

 

[Pablom]

 

[Pablom]

 

[Pablom]

 

[Keb]

Your problem is you're trying to post the slide show. Click the "share" arrow on an individual picture, select BBCode, change size with the down arrow then copy the picture address (funny little code thing). Open a reply to post on this site and click the "add picture" icon and paste the flickr code. Click the PREVIEW button to see if it worked. If it did, post it. It's so simple even a caveman can do it... :/

[/url]Untitled by paul miller, on Flickr[/img]

 

[Pablom]

I guess I'm below a caveman... I got it even to the BB part resized and copied and the Pic , pasted and it showed nothing. Caveman it is I guess, dang!!
Thanks for trying Paul

 

[Pablom]

[/url] [/img]

 

[Pablom]

Ok the caveman finally got a image site that I could work with.
Thanks for all you help folks!!
Pablom ( Paul)

 

[Zonie]

While that's a nice set of giant photos of marks, it doesn't give much of an idea as to what the entire gun looks like.

Do you have any photos showing the whole gun?

 

[Pablom]

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[Pablom]

Here's a few more pics. It's pretty long to for one complete one, I don't think it'll give much detail. Note the finger grooves behind the trigger, they're different from most muskets I've seen.
Thanks for all the help.
Pablo

 

[Canute Rex]

That's some oddball rifling. Really deep for the barrel thickness and a lot of lands and grooves. (16?!?)

The bolster for the nipple reminds me of one I saw on a Potsdam musket. I did some research on it and found that it was an 1818 flintlock that had been converted to percussion in 1842. The lock plate on this one also looks more "flinty" than "cappy."

That and the strange "aftermarket" rifling make me think that it is an early 19th century European smoothbore flintlock musket that was rebuilt as a percussion. Hundreds of thousands of them were bought by U.S. government agents during the Civil War, partly to arm volunteer units and partly to keep them out of the hands of Confederate agents. They were mostly 69 caliber. The one I saw was issued to a friend's great-great grandfather in the Wisconsin volunteers.

Quite a number went home with volunteers after the war and got modified for hunting. Usually just cut down, but I can imagine some ambitious soul cutting rifling.

That rifle could be pushing 200 years old.

 

[Pablom]

Thanks Canute! I googled Potsdam, and sure enough that lock is a dead ringer. Even the two pins behind the hammer. Yes the rifling is quite odd, simular to Whitworth, though not a hex of course. Yes 16 land and 16 grooves.

So the old girl is likely Prussian. You think the rifling was added after the civil war?

It shoots a ball very accurate at 50 yds, over 75 grains 2F, like 3". And those sights and my eyes are sub par, so likely the shooter. I've tried minie balls too, not as accurate, though it likely need to be cleaned by then too.

Note the rear sight too, it has 2 folding leafs and 1 solid middle one.

Thanks again for your help!!

 

[Canute Rex]

I would bet the rent that the rifling was added later. The early 19th century flintlock military muskets were smoothbore. The sights were most likely added during the mid-century rebuild or later. Any sign of a former bayonet lug?

Another thing to think about is that not all so-called Potsdam muskets were built in Potsdam. There were other armories. I can't remember the name offhand, but my friend's heirloom was made in a city that is now in the Czech Republic.

I can't imagine a minie working very well with that rifling. Someone correct me, but I believe a minie works better with shallow, wide rifling. Try really thick patching and a lubed felt wad under the ball.

 

[Pablom]

Canute,

I believe you are right about the shallow rifling, better with Minie.

I also will look into and try the .690 felt wads, over powder, likely have to make em myself. I dont know anyone carrying such,14 Ga would be perfect.693 .
The Czechs made and still make very good guns!!

Anyway thanks again

 

[nkbj]

That is just seriously cool.
X2 thank you for the photo of the muzzle and rifling.

 

[Pablom]

Good cheer, that's what sold me was the rifling. Never saw one like it either. Thanks

Canute I'll look to see if it's got a bayonet lug.

 

[TFoley]

Is it actually rifling? That is to say, is it helical - or, more interestingly, is it actually straight?

Rifling form like that are usually associated with European arms, particularly, Italian, German, Austrian and Bohemian, from the latter part of the 17th Century.

tac