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.69 smoothbore ?

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goldidig

32 Cal.
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Aug 24, 2009
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Guys, I got this smoothy from a friend of mine a while back and was told it was most likely a commercially sportered (done post civil war ) French Model 1842. I know the wood has been shortened, but I think the barrel length is normal. It's pretty long and the ramrod looks untouched on both ends and along it's length.I shoot modern Hawken reproductions and know very little about firearms this old, so I'm sure anyone into these will know at least 99% more than me! :redface: The guy I got it from is an experienced long time BP shooter and fired it some, so I'd say it is definitely shootable. It has a pretty heavy trigger pull, but other than that I see no serious issues. Locks and releases fine. There is pitting around the hammer and nipple area, I assume from corrosive caps and light pitting in the bore. The ramrod is in good shape as well. Metal is in decent shape and not rusted to pieces. Stock was refinished at some time many years ago. I'd guess the lock was replaced when it was sportered many eons ago as I can faintly see C. OR G. Glisenti over what MAY be the word Brescia on it as well or maybe that is the company that took the military muskets and sportered them. I really have no idea at all. The number of letters is correct for the word Brescia, but I can't make it out good enough to say if that's it or not. I am going to sell it and really don't know what to say about it in my ad, or even know an appropriate value for it, to tell you the truth. If anyone can give me some advice I'd appreciate it. I shoot Hawken replicas and know absolutely ZERO about these old genuine antiques.
Al
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The lock is original. It isn't worth much, less than $400 and probably closer to $150-$200.
 
Do a pencil rubbing of those names to get a better idea of what is there. Just put clean paper over the metal, and rub a pencil over the surface with the lettering. A fine pencil tip will often bring out faint portions of the lettering you simply can't see in normal light, or without a magnifying glass, and oblique lighting.

Pitting is caused by neglect, and lack of cleaning. The Gun has had a lot of time to be NEGLECTED over the years.

I tend to agree with Mike on the value. I don't see it bringing much more than you might get for any wall-hanger, whether it shoots or not.

A lot of Flintlocks were scavenged for their barrels and parts, and converted into Percussion ignition guns back in the 1830s, and 1840s. Some made it to American shores with immigrants. Because the Percussion period lasted such a short time, before the advent of breech-loaders, many of these imports ended up on the wall, where at most they were dusted, occasionally. This one does appear to be in better shape than most of these that you occasionally find at gun shows. :thumbsup:
 
Thanks for the response guys!WOW! that was fast! I did the rubbing as suggested. It is indeed G.GLISENTI over BRESCIA It stands me $250 CDN so I guess I am somewhat within a proper value. It is better than many old timers I have seen at our shows too. The pitting in the bore is very minor and the rest of the metal is very good. The bad pitting is around the nipple and hammer area. I figured it was corrosive fulminate caps that did the damage. The bore wasn't neglected like the nipple area for some reason. It actually is a decent looking old timer when viewed in person. Photos make that pitting look terrible! In case I don't sell it, do you guys know where I can order a ball mould for one of these cannons? I may just have to keep it and try 'er out!
Al
 
Congratulations. As to your new question, .69 Caliber doesn't tell you enough about the actual bore size. It sounds like something stamped on the outside of the barrel. Back in the 19th century, bore dimensions varied all over the place.

You need to measure the bore YOURSELF. To the Thousandths of an inch, using a caliper, or micrometer on a lead slug driven into the barrel, and then pulled back out. Only then can you know what size ball to CONSIDER using in the gun. You will want to know both the Groove And Bore Diameters, and then compute the groove depth, to give you some idea how thick a cloth patch you need for that barrel, and ball size.


Before buying a mold, you should consider ordering small quantities of Balls from suppliers, like Track of the Wolf, in various diameters to see which proves the most accurate.

You will want to know the Rate of Twist of the rifling in the barrel, too. On the Index page to this forum, Under MEMBER RESOURCES, you will find an article setting out how to go about measuring the Rate of twist of your barrel. Its listed under " Articles". You will also find LINKS to suppliers. You can find mold makers listed there, and if you click on the name, you can go to their on-line web-site, and catalogs to see what is offered. There are other sources of molds that are not on that list, however, so when you know the exact size of mold you want, come back to ask again about a source. There are also commercial casters who make any size ball you desire. If you are not going to do a lot of shooting, and don't already have casting equipment, it might make more sense buying the balls, rather than casting them. There are mold makers who advertise in the classified ads in Muzzle Blasts, the monthly magazine for the (American) National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association.

Looking at the Track of the Wolf site, they have .672", .675", and .678" diameter round balls for sale, in lots of 25 for $9.99 USD. That Sounds Expensive until you realize that a Round ball those sizes is about one Ounce of lead, EACH, ( 437.5 grains to the ounce)and you have the labor, overhead, and profit to pay over that cost. IT IS expensive, compared to the cost of casting your own, but not if you are only going to shoot the gun a couple of times. Pure lead is running all over the place, but some scrap yards carry it for about $.50-60 a pound, while commercial suppliers are getting at least $1.00 per lb.

UNLESS THAT BREECHPLUG IS REMOVED FOR A THOROUGH INSPECTION OF THE BARREL BY A COMPETENT GUNSMITH, I would not plan to try shooting conicals in the barrel. Chamber pressures are much higher, and you need to know that the gun is in good enough condition to withstand that extra pressure using conicals.

I would concentrate NOW, on removing and replacing that nipple, if you are going to shoot the gun. Its very old, probably made of iron rather than steel, and, I suspect, the inside hole has been worn badly through aging, and neglect. Use a good penetrating oil like Kroil, Break Free, Liquid Wrench, or if those are not available locally, put the breech end of the barrel in a container and cover the nipple with Kerosene( coal oil) and let it stand a week. The more crud you remove from around the base of the nipple, the easier the oil can penetrate the threads, and dissolve the rust. Put some oil down the barrel, too, during the soak: you might as well attack the problem from both sides! If you can't get it out of the bolster afler a week, take the barrel to a gunsmith. He may have to drill the nipple out, but he is more likely to do a competent job of this, and then find you a new nipple, with oversized thread dimension, to put into the gun. He will also tap the bolster properly for the new sized nipple. Use a good quality nipple in the gun. :thumbsup:
 

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