7 months wait worth every second....TVM Lancaster

[Rusty Spur 82]

Matt PA,
What does your rifle weigh? I am considering either an Early or Late Lancaster in 54 cal.with maybe a 38 inch. swamped barrel.I am thinking more on the Early with the wider butt stock for the recoil of the 54 cal.,not knowing what the felt recoil would be on the skinny butt stock of the Late Lancaster.
Rusty Spur

 

[Matt PA]

Matt PA,
What does your rifle weigh? I am considering either an Early or Late Lancaster in 54 cal.with maybe a 38 inch. swamped barrel.I am thinking more on the Early with the wider butt stock for the recoil of the 54 cal.,not knowing what the felt recoil would be on the skinny butt stock of the Late Lancaster.
Rusty Spur

Rusty,

I weighed it on a nice accurate digital hang scale at a comfortable 8.62 lbs. and that was with a long heavy steel Tow worm, ball puller and extra flints in the patchbox plus a button jag on the ramrod.
Without those extra items I would guess the bare gun to tip at just over 8.5 lbs.
That 44" C weight Rice "Lancaster/ Dickert" profile holds on target like a rock without being muzzle heavy due to the amount of swamp and it shoots like a pussycat even with 90gr 3F hunting loads. It's very soft shooting.

A barrel like Rice's C weight Transition in .54 would be nice for an Issac Haines style Lancaster gun and on TVM's Early Lancaster would scale at least 1/2 lb. lighter than my gun.
The 38" Transition C weight is 4.3 lbs. and my 44" Lancaster barrel is 5.1 lbs.
I would guess somewhere in the neighborhood of 7 3/4 +/- lbs. finished and very light feeling in the muzzle.

 

[Rusty Spur 82]

Matt,
Thanks a lot for the info.That's a big help.I was considering the Late Lancaster in 54 cal. simply because it would fit into the fur trade period better for my persona.The narrow butt was a concern.Do you know that it would be?I have only shot 50 cal.rifles.I kind a like the idea of the 42 inch barrel for maybe a little weight up front for that off hand hold.I would have to get used to loading it since I am standing tall at 5'7".I believe I like your rifle's weight over the 9.5 pound muzzle loader I have with it's 32 inch barrel.

 

[Matt PA]

Matt,
Thanks a lot for the info.That's a big help.I was considering the Late Lancaster in 54 cal. simply because it would fit into the fur trade period better for my persona.The narrow butt was a concern.Do you know that it would be?I have only shot 50 cal.rifles.I kind a like the idea of the 42 inch barrel for maybe a little weight up front for that off hand hold.I would have to get used to loading it since I am standing tall at 5'7".I believe I like your rifle's weight over the 9.5 pound muzzle loader I have with it's 32 inch barrel.

Rusty,
At 5'7" I think you'd find loading my 60" rifle with it's 44" barrel a bit of a chore! :wink: It would probably sit level with your nose.

You need to do a little research on barrels, profiles, and weights because they don't necessarily fall into a natural progression for mass weight based upon length....actual profile of the barrel dictates weight as much as length.
For example my "C" weight Rice 44" "Lancaster" barrel weighs 5.1 lbs while the 42" "Golden Age" barrel actually weighs 1/2 lb heavier at 5.6 lbs and would have given me a finished gun at a bit over 9 lbs. even though the barrel is swamped,the same "C" weight, and 2" shorter.

A .54 isn't what I would consider a "bomber" with regards to recoil and heavier charges like a .58 or .62. I personally don't notice a whole lot of difference between a .50 and .54 in recoil, but I've actually had some .50's with comparatively smaller charges bite me harder than my .54 because of gun weight and fit. I'm a big guy at 6'3" and 250lbs so I'm not very sensitive to recoil anyway.
If you're going from a 9.5 lb .50 to possibly a sub 8 lb. .54 then my guess is that you WILL notice the recoil. That said I don't think any Lancaster style stock and buttplate is going to have you grabbing for the button on the Life Alert necklace :grin:

TVM will build you whatever rifle you want with whatever components, so it's up to you to make it the custom rifle you want and one that's appropriate for the time period you want it to portray. Take your time and make sure you wind up with the one you really want with respect to it's physical properties and the time period it fits into. And you WILL make changes along the way, count on it!

 

[hoochiepapa]

I'm not trying to answer for Matt, but I have a late Lancaster in .54 with a 42 inch Getz c-weight. It weighs in at 8 3/4 lbs. with no patchbox. Recoil is manageable, and with that high comb you shouldn't have much problem.
I'm 5'11".

 

[Rusty Spur 82]

Thanks Matt and Mike for pointing me in the right direction and answering some of my unknowns.I feel more confident now,in picking and choosing.I'm getting closer to calling TVM.
Matt,that is one beautiful rifle you have there.

 

[derek.white]

Wow it's beutiful!! Looks like it would be a easy gun to carry all day. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the pictures..

 

[drwhip]

That is one gorgeous rifle. I've been out of this game for a while, but am looking to do something similar to yours...so who is TVA?

 

[drwhip]

Oops...never mind, just found the website post. Thanks.

 

[F_Thomas]

Matt

I keep coming back and looking at your rifle. What a beautiful testimony to your thoughts and wishes and TVM's ability to deliver.

Merry Christmas!

 

[JelloStorm]

That is the finest flintlock I have ever seen. Is that a patch box on the stock? :bow:

I'm right up Interstate 81 in Hazleton. I'll hopefully have a TVM Late Lancaster in 2011 so maybe we'll go shooting sometime. I would love to see that rifle up close!

 

[Matt PA]

Thanks guys, it's hard to put it down.......and it's really looking nice now, the brass is getting a nice patina and I scratched the hell out of it already! :haha:

It's ready to go for Monday and will be lugged all over Clinton Co. for a full week.....I've already been able to hunt quite a few days with it in NY during their shotgun season but just didn't get it done.
Now it's off to PA camp and the "real" fun!

Bryan,
When you get it let me know....anytime. Merry Christmas!

 

[hanshi]

You know, a wait of 6 or 7 months is not at all bad. My first TVM rifle was a solid year and then some.

 

[frankwilmeth]

Matt,I am about your size and was wondering what length of pull you ordered on that rifle?

 

[Matt PA]

Took some time a couple days ago to widen and polish the pan on the Chambers "Golden Age" lock....... should only further enhance what's already a lightning quick lock time! :thumbsup:

 

[C Barker]

Matt, what did you use to create a fine job of polishing the pan?

 

[Matt PA]

Matt, what did you use to create a fine job of polishing the pan?

[/quote]

Wolf Eyes,
I started by widening the pan with a drum style grinding stone for the Dremel that was very similar to the radius of the original pan.... I marked the new pan shape with pencil and carefully worked my way from the inside out to those marks being careful not to deepen the existing surface.
I used a cone style grinding stone to shape the end portion of the pan. I was able to widen and shape the pan nicely.

After I had everything cut in the way I wanted I switched over to a cone style buffing attachment and used "Flitz" polish. I would polish until the paste became very wet and black and thin and then I would stop, clean the pan and start again with fresh Flitz.
I put the final bright finish on with a felt wheel of a similar radius and more Flitz polish.

I also polished the top of the pan surface as well as the underside of the frizzen to ensure there were no worked up high spots that would compromise the seal between the 2 surfaces.

I think it came out pretty nice for less than 1/2hr work and a Dremel tool.

 

[C Barker]

Matt, what did you use to create a fine job of polishing the pan?

Wolf Eyes,
I started by widening the pan with a drum style grinding stone for the Dremel that was very similar to the radius of the original pan.... I marked the new pan shape with pencil and carefully worked my way from the inside out to those marks being careful not to deepen the existing surface.
I used a cone style grinding stone to shape the end portion of the pan. I was able to widen and shape the pan nicely.

After I had everything cut in the way I wanted I switched over to a cone style buffing attachment and used "Flitz" polish. I would polish until the paste became very wet and black and thin and then I would stop, clean the pan and start again with fresh Flitz.
I put the final bright finish on with a felt wheel of a similar radius and more Flitz polish.

I also polished the top of the pan surface as well as the underside of the frizzen to ensure there were no worked up high spots that would compromise the seal between the 2 surfaces.

I think it came out pretty nice for less than 1/2hr work and a Dremel tool.
[/quote]

Thanks. 'Preciate it. :bow: :thumbsup:

 

[tg]

That is a very nice looking gun Matt,was there any talk as to what time period it would represent during the building/parts choice experience? We often do not see much in the way of information on this part of the early guns folks have made, just curious.

 

[Matt PA]

That is a very nice looking gun Matt,was there any talk as to what time period it would represent during the building/parts choice experience? We often do not see much in the way of information on this part of the early guns folks have made, just curious.

Hi Gene, thanks.....I talked to Chambers at Dixon's this summer and used their "early" Lancaster kit gun as a rough guideline for what I wanted after handling one they had there. Something appropriate for around 1770-75.
They gave me the basics with a 44" .54 caliber swamped barrel as being a good choice, a wood patchbox was just as likely as brass at that time (and I like the wood boxes better anyway)
They said the "Golden Age Germanic" lock is the most appropriate for a rifle of that period and it looks great with the slim lines of the gun.
Being pre Rev war I went with some fairly modest but appropriate carving without getting overly ornate (found the tang and cameo wrist style on another Early Lancaster gun I saw and I copied it on mine) Added the simple but tastefully engraved star inlay to round it out.
Combined with the rest of the carving (belly lines, Cheekpiece lines etc) I think the entire package represents a Lancaster rifle of the period just prior to the Rev war rather well....albeit not a copy of any known example of that time period.

I gave it enough thought over the months leading up to the build to be not only be happy with the way the gun performs but that I can also call it appropriate for the time I wanted it to represent. I had little conversation with TVM on those particulars and only dictated what I wanted in a finished rifle as the result of my observations and conversations with builders and component vendors.

And it's been a pleasure to carry around PA and NY doing what it was made for!