70 grains strong enough?

Hi all I am new to this flinter stuff. I just got my fathers old flinter from the gunsmith all ckecked out fine. I was wondering would 70 grains of 3f goex powder push a 50 cal patched ball fast enough to put a deer down for good inside of 75 yards. My flinter puts this load for shot inside of an inch. I love this tpye shooting and I can not wait to go out hunting with "dads" gun. It makes it like he is still with me. sorry to get sentimental. :sorry:

Thanks Koz :front:

 

[tg]

I have use the same load, cal. and had good results at similar ranges,

 

[jim gray]

For a couple of .50 cal.s that I've shot that seemed to be about the optimum load. 3Fg is a little hotter than 2Fg so 70 grain loads are not strictly target loads by any means. Good luck with the new pasttime and don't apologize for being sentimental; I'm sure most of the rest of us are too or we woiuldn't be shooting flinters.

 

[Bob J]

Shot my Dad's .50 Allentown flinter for the first time about 2 mo. ago. He and Russ Hamm built it in 1970. Wow! Talk about a sentimental trip....remember riding along in the Land-Rover with my little brother, watching my dad hog hunt on a 23,000 acre ranch with this rifle in about 1972.

Incidentally, I shot 55 to 60 grains 3f and was "in the black" at 50 yards. Might try 70 grains myself and see if it tightens up. If so, it would be pretty neat to carry his rifle in the woods on a deer hunt.

Enjoy your dad's rifle :front:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Yes. It's not a barn burner, but a good solid vitals shot will work fine. Don't try a pole-axle from the posterior approach (butt to vitals) with this load.

 

[Runner]

Last three deer. 70 grains of 3f under a 495 ball. One out of a 25 inch barrel. One out of a 28 inch barrel. One out a 32.5 inch barrel. All three were pass thrus and one was a pretty steep angle quartering away on a nice buck at 60 yards. If the gun will cooperate, 100 is a better hunting load. With 70 or 100, placement is everything.

 

[bdarin]

I use 90 gr. of FFg in my flint .50. Also use it in the pan....works fine. With 90 gr I can hold a 2" circle at 50 yd, 5" at 100 yd. That'll take out the vitals for sure at 50. Probably wouldn't take a shot over 75 yd anyway. :front: :blue:

 

[tg]

"Don't try a pole-axle from the posterior approach (butt to vitals) with this load."

I would suggest passing on that shot with any load, caliber, gun, distance, phase of moon or whatever.....

 

[Maestro]

Don't try a pole-axle from the posterior approach (butt to vitals) with this load.

Ah yes... the "Texas brain shot"... the "San Fransisco bulls-eye"... I, too, would pass on that shot, expecially with a muzzleloader. (I'm too used to archery hunting, I guess.)

 

[roundball]

A friend of mine got a big 9 pointer by burying the shaft and a Muzzy 4 blade "straight up the chute" as the buck was walking straight away from him

 

[roundball]

If I'm going after deer I like stout loads.

I've killed a buck and a doe while squirrel hunting with a little 40grn load in a .45cal flinter...but they were only 15-20yds away.

My .50cal deer load is 90grns Goex 3F, oxyoke wonderwad, .018" pillow ticking, Hornady .490 ball...so the outcome is never in question as far as power is concerned

 

[Flint54]

I'm sure that 70gr would work with an ideal shot but then when does that happen. I much prefer 90-110gr with a prb. It will group for me @1.5" at 50yds and will truely flatten a rb and normally I will find it just under the hide on the far side @ the size of a half dollar. Mush inbetween. :m2c: :results: :hatsoff:

 

[Halftail]

the "Texas brain shot"... the "San Fransisco bulls-eye"...

::Never heard them terms used before :: :crackup:

 

What would be more of importance power vs. accurate shot placement. I always tend to favor shot placement at lower speeds in the vitals then a shot missing the aminal that was zipping along.
thanks for all the advise. I will try working up my load 5 grains till my group opens too much.
:front: :hatsoff:
KOZ

 

[roundball]

What would be more of importance power vs. accurate shot placement. I always tend to favor shot placement at lower speeds in the vitals then a shot missing the aminal that was zipping along.
thanks for all the advise. I will try working up my load 5 grains till my group opens too much.
:front: :hatsoff:
KOZ

FWIW, we should all use what we're comfortable with but just to clarify so you're making your decision on facts, the comment you made about a slow shot in the vitals vs. a fast shot that misses does not really reflect reality of the accuracy discussion.

The differences in accuracy are so slight that they are of no consequence when hunting...unless...what some people have experienced is when going to a full power charge, groups open up, then they back their powder charge down until the groups get smaller again, and incorrectly conclude that's all they can do and are stuck with a mid-range powder charge.

When in reality, all that's required is to start including an Oxyoke wonderwad down on top of the powder charge before seating the projectile, and/or a thicker, stronger pillow ticking patch when using patched balls.

Doing these things produce the same kind of accuracy even with full power loads..using Oxyoke wonderwads, .018" pillow ticking patches, and max charges of Goex, my rifles average 3" groups at 100yds.

So it's not at all a case of a slow projectile in the vitals vs. a fast one that misses.

:front:

 

roundball is our 'professor of velocity' here and clearly he is correct in saying that a 90 gr load of fffg is going to put a .490/.495 roundball on a killing trajectory with plenty of force (energy) behind it. So will a 100 gr load, etc...others point out that you really do not need that much 'killing power' and that 60 or 70 grs is enough. My personal prejudice is to work up the most accurate loads so I know where my shot is going and place it accurately into the target, be it paper or animal. If that accurate load is too light to be an effective hunting load (lots of variables here)then I goose it up until the group opens up too much or until I reach a more 'powerful' load. We all must remember that traditional BP arms do not deliver modern rifle ballistics. The old timers did not know ballistics. The old timers harvested a lot of game with light loads (what we would consider light today with our modern cartridge brainwashing). Many old powder measures have been found that would seem 'half charges' to us today. The successful old timers took sure close shots and were good shots. Even so, you read period accounts of having to finish off game with their hunting knives--which were alot longer than ours because they needed to be to 'reach the vitals' of a bear, etc....nowadays we insist on a cleaner kill and roundball is probably doing it right with his 90 gr charges. But I still think that 70 grs for a .490 ball is plenty for deer at reasonable ranges.

 

[roundball]

Now Mike...just so were clear...I never take issue with whatever load anyone uses and I believe I stated that clearly in my post...that all of us should use whatever we are comfortable with.

Based upon this gentleman's summary comment in his last post, I was simply trying to ensure he didn't go away with an incorrect conclusion that low/mid range powder charges are accurate and high/max powder charges are inaccurate, as that is absolutely not the case...and it's how "old wive's tales" get started.

As powder charges change, related components often have to change to maintain the same/similar accuracy, and that's what my post was about...it was not about "velocity", or that he...OR YOU...should use a different charge, my charge, a higher charge, or any other charge.

He made a closing comment that summarized slow charges are accurate and fast charges are inaccurate...a close study of my post will see that I was only clarifiying that point...if left unchecked, there goes the old wive's tale I mentioned.

You've made it clear that you don't like powder charges that are larger than the particular ones you've decided to choose...we get it...but my post was not about that.

Professor of velocity ??

eace:

 

I was trying to honor you with the title professor of velocity, I guess you took it wrong...sorry.

 

Round ball thank you for your information. I am new to this type of hunting. I want to put my first shot at a deer my best shot. I tend to be a perfectionist when it comes to hunting. I will try different patching material. :thanks:

Thank you for the post.

 

[Bearbait2]

Mr. Roberts,
Because RB does consistently offer such good advice, I too believed you were honoring him, not degrading or being sarcastic.
RB - please continue with your common sense approach as I'm sure we all appreciate it. We may not always agree but it is good, solid food for thought and reflection. :hatsoff:
Best Wishes