777 Load for a .58 cal

[tliles1054]

My problem is similar to the one posted by Jerem0621 who was advised to get the black powder substitute. I'm also new to muzzleloading and was steered today to Hodgdon 777 FFG powder by a clerk who pushed the easy cleanup and sulfur free odor. But I can't find any data on the correct 777 load for my C.S. Richmond .58cal. to shoot the Hornady roundballs I purchased. From what I've found in this forum, I think 35 grains would be a good place to start. Am I right?

Tim

 

[jerem0621]

TimL,

I think If I were in your shoes I would start with 50 grains by volume of 777. I just bought my first pound of real black powder today and I can't wait to go burn some charcoal. :grin:. 50 grains of 777 will shoot like 65 grains of bp. I shoot 80 grains of pyrodex and this shoots really easy out of my rifle.

I've been shooting pyrodex in my Thompson New Englander for the past couple of months. I've noticed that in order for me to get the quickest bang out of my gun with the subs I have to remove the nipple and pack the flash channel with pyrodex for my first shot after cleaning. I also get faster shots when I pack the ball on the powder really tight. The subs don't ignight as quick as bp, (so I am told) but they can and do work. People, myself included, have had great success with the subs. I think I would go with pyrodex over 777 for my percussion gun. The reason is 777 was designed with 209 shotgun primers in mind not #11 percussion caps. But they can and do work. Befor you shoot your 777 (or anything else)make sure that your gun is oil and moisture free or else you will experience a very uncomfortable "snap" and no bang when you shoot. Good luck and shoot straight!

Oh for the easy clean up, don't buy that lame excuse. It's hard to beat soapy water and a cleaning jag. Pyrodex is very easy to clean up and others say the same thing about bp.

Jerem0621

 

[Herb]

Here is some comparative data. This is in a flintlock. In a percussion rifle, I use Hot Shot nipples and the 5 grain black powder booster that Hodgdon recommends in their printed loading manuals. You can look them up on the web, call up Hodgdon Triple 7.

The rifle is a .58 Green River Rifle Works barreled flintlock Hawken fullstock I built.
If you can't read it, the target on the left is 90 grains of Swiss 1 1/2 with a .562 ball, 6 shots avg 1507 fps. Next, 90 gr Triple 7 2F with 5 gr Goex 2F booster, 1727 fps. Then 100 gr Goex 2F, 7 shots avg 1525 fps. Right, 100 gr Triple 7 2F, 10 shots avg 1801 fps.

Not pictured, 80 gr Goex 2F gave 1331 fps for 6, 80 Swiss 1 1/2 1432 fps for 5, 80 Pyrodex RS 1488 fps for 5, 80 Triple 7 2F 1636 fps for 5 and 90 gr Goex 2F with .575 ball gave 1441 fps for 6 shots. The reason for six and seven shots is, I don't wipe the bore after shooting nor clean between changes of powder. Frequently, the first shot with a changed powder will be slower and out of the group.

Fifty grains would be a mild load. 90 would be a good hunting load. 100 thumps my poor old aching shoulder joint pretty good, especially 10 shots. I could have gone up to maybe 140 grains, but this was enough for me.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Look. That clerk was only interested in selling you what he carried, and he doesn't sell Black Powder. Order your powder from suppliers with links you can find here. Powder inc, and Graf & sons, both will send out powder to you delivered at your door. It will cost you much less than the stuff in the store, and it WORKS. You may have to buy 4 or 5 lbs as a minimum, but with that, they pay the shipping, and you pay the added Hazardous Materials fees. ( $20 Per shipment.) If you get some friends together, and order more powder, the price comes down, and the fee gets divided between each can of powder. A case will have 25 lbs. You can legally order 50 lbs. of powder at a time. You may be required to send a copy of your driver's license to prove your age, and a statement that you are not going to resell the powder, but that is almost pro-forma these days. Distributing the powder to club members who have bought the powder, or paid for it, or promised to pay you on delivery is not selling the powder over again.

 

[tliles1054]

Thanks, fellas. I'll stick with the black powder from here on but I think, since I have it, I'll experiment with the 777 this weekend. Based on what Herb's data shows, I'll probably start at about 80 grains and move up from there.

By the way Herb, how do you measure the fps of your shots?

Tim

 

[Doe]

Nothing wrong with 777 I'm useing it my self Can't really fine real black powder any more and the sub do work well if not better you just need more spark!! Good luck :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you are using your own computer to write here, then you aren't looking very had for black powder. If you will go to the Goex Website, they have a map of the USA with the list of distributors for your state. Most distributors have either or both an 800 number, or an email address. They can either tell you the nearest retail shop where you can buy BP, or they arrange to ship it to you.

We have links here to several suppliers, who sell black powder, and will ship it to your home address. The more you buy, the less the price per pound, of course.

There is a HAZ MAT fee that is charged for every shipment, of $20.00. It does not take a 3rd grader to figure out that if you buy only 4 pounds of powder that will add $5 to the cost of each can, but if you buy a full case of 25 lbs., the Haz Mat fee will increase the cost per pound only 80 cents.

The last reported purchases by members here delivered black powder at your door for as little as under $12.00. Compare that to the price you are paying for that Triple Seven.

Powder, Inc. and Graf & sons are often mentioned companies who sell Black powder directly to shooters. Graf sells is own label, and also Wano BP, both made by the same company. You may actually be able to buy the Graf powder for less than the Goex. Many of these companies also have Swiss powder for sale, but of course, it costs much more than GOEX, or other brands.

 

[Darkgael]

I am bothered by one thing in this series of posts responding to a person new to muzzleloading. That is the references to charge weights without the cautionary note that BP subs are to be loaded by volume equivalent and not by weight.
Maybe I am being overcautious, but I'd hate to find that someone put a straight 80 or 90 grs. of 777 into a ML.
Pete

 

[Herb]

I have an Oehler 35P chronograph and have measured the velocity of thousands of rounds, centerfire rifle and black powder. I use only black powder in my rifles, but I test the Hodgdon Pyrodex P, RS and Triple 7 to answer the questions people like you have. I treat this stuff like black powder, that is, clean it the same. Paul gives good advice on how to get black powder. I bought a case from Cooney's in Hobbs, NM about a year ago, picked it up at his store, and still had to pay some kind of hazardous fees, plus state sales tax. It cost $9.25 per pound, but final cost was $10.35 per pound. Just got three pounds of Swiss 1 1/2 from a friend who got a case from Upper Missouri Traders in Crofton, NE, which town I drove through last June and didn't remember UMT was there. The shipped powder cost $16.80 per pound.