A Blunderbuss ... is it British?

[Viana]

Well, probably not British, although the stock and lock could be ?
I don't know about the brass barrel, which apparently has no marks.
Could i have some coments on this piece, please?
Fernando

.

 

[sundog]

Looks like an Indian made piece. The quality is an issue and says India. Maby made in the 1960s or 70s and antiqued.

 

[torn moc]

that's The Shortest Blunderbuss I have ever seen.
The tube looks big,,,have you ever measured it?
perhaps 4 bore? I have had a few and shot them all...What a Blast! My current BBess is a 7 guage...Id still like to have a 4 bore....
Kaint never have enough!!!

 

[Zonie]

Hard to say where it was made.
Most likely it was not the UK, France, Spain, Germany or Italy. They all require proof marks on the barrel.

 

[Viana]

Thanks a lot for your input Gentlemen.
This piece belongs to a friend of mine; i will transmit him your coments.
I had already adviced him to dismount the barrel, looking for some marks.
Fernando

 

[celtan]

Hi Guys,
I'm here on Viana's referral. I got the "trombon" along with a Spanish pistol, both have identical ramrods, and I naturally assumed they were both Spanish, specially on account that the BB's barrel has the remnants of what seems to be the Spanish Royal arms seal at its top. Then I read in the book "Small Arms of the Spanish Treasure Fleets" that the Spanish never made brass BBs. That started the ball rolling. OTOH, the same book states that the Spanish didn't have any official issue curved blades until 1806, and I know that the Spanish Hussars of the Reyna and Espana Rgms. wielded a curved sabre very much similar to the M/1780 during the reign of Charles III.
Coming back to track: The ouside diameter of the barrel's end is 2 3/4". This BB, as originally found, had a thick whitish fungi coat on one side, and a mix of rust and brass patina everywhere else, which I was forced to clean.
I have seen the very same BB at a local library's book, but they haven't allowed me to photograph the page, nor is the pic specifically IDed.

Check the following pics, and no, I haven't yet disassembled the lock yet, but I intend to do so very soon.
More pics (if you'd like to see them larger, the image depot is at http://s353.photobucket.com/albums/r371/runswithswords/Naval Blunderbuss 18th C/)

 

[poordevil]

Maybe Belgum made for the Africa trade?

 

[celtan]

Why Africa, of all places? That truly took me by surprise...

:shocked2:

I understand brass barrels were mostly used in naval environments. Africa is way dry, there's truly no advantage in using the far more expensive, rust-resistant brass guns down there.

Best

Manuel Luis

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

In the photo looking down the bore, is that the breech plug face? It looks a bit odd.

 

[celtan]

I think it is the BP.

 

[torn moc]

Hmmm...I'd say thats the breechplug face..its silver and all the black powder I have seen is Black.

 

[Rod Lassey]

Naval signal or flare launcher, perhaps?

Rod

 

[chuckpa]

Was the barrel and tang cast as one piece and then a bolt screwed in under the tang as a BP?
Our is it all one piece I couldn't see a line in the photograph where the tang would be screwed into the Barrel?

 

[Wes/Tex]

It appears the major parts (long-tanged butt plate, trigger guard, side plate and lock) are original Long Land Pattern musket pieces of English make. I can't tell if the entry thimble is a LLP part as well but may be. What's curious is that the lock plate distinctly shows the decrotive line work but no maker's name & date and no King's stamping. These were put on by the maker when the lock was originally manufacturerd and not when the guns were assembled which is the reason so much confusion exists about LLP muskets when obyiously later styles have early marked locks. The locks were made and put is storage till required to be used in assembly of the muskets. This lock seems never to have been marked or the decorative edging would be worn away as well as any maker's markings. Certainly is curious.

As for the previous comment about the "African Trade", Liege contracted for the manufacture of hunting guns for trade in Africa (and elsewhere) and made guns from surplus parts. The general policy of many colonial powers was NOT to arm the natives with firearms of the same class as the government troops and many of these guns were flintlock even as late as the 1880's or so. Brass might have nothing to do with where the guns went, only with what was available as surplus parts. I doubt this gun is one of those since nearly all were meant as hunting guns and a blunderbuss would certainly be limited in use. Very interesting gun though. Maybe someone else can add more.

 

[celtan]

Apologies, by BP I meant Breech Plug. I shoould have known the acronym could be mistaken, I use it all the time when I give flintlock safety lectures...

 

[celtan]

I haven't yet been able to disarm the barrel, it's held with a pin to the stock. But the lock itself doesn't show any internal markings.

The area under the flash-hole in the barrel shows BP burnt marks, suggesting it saw some use.

Can't take pics right now, trashed my camera accidentally while dismounting the lock, and taking pics of the procedure.

Will do it all upon my return from "The Battle of the Hook" reenactment at VA.

Best

Manuel Luis

 

[benvenuto]

Maybe I'm shooting wild, but I am thinking Spain, 1950's, but made with antique parts. The form of this blunderbus resembles that of the "Trabuccos" used for blank firing at fiestas. And Spain was actively manufacturing "antiques" (or doctoring real abtiques to make them more valuable) from the 1950's to the 1980's.

The blunderbuss or Trabucco had a long and chequered history in Spain. They were meant to have been used by famous bandits and highwaymen but I have only ever seen one that wasn't just a cut down military musket with a crude flare added to the end of the barrel by a village blacksmith. They may have been used at sea and the colonies but I can't find any reference of them being an official regulation arm.

 

[musketman]

In the photo looking down the bore, is that the breech plug face? It looks a bit odd.

Now I hope it isn't a patched roundball still down the tube (the extra patching material being folded by the ramrod), that would mean taking a picture in front of a live charge...

Many muzzleloaders are sold with live rounds still in them...

Below is a closer look at the breach area, it looks like either the spure of a patched roundball (flat top) or a roundball with a gouge in it where a ball puller stripped the lead out. I am sure that is not the breech, it would be subjected to the same conditions as the bore, therefore it wouldn't look so bright.

It is my belief that this blunderbus is still loaded by what I have seen here.

 

[poordevil]

unless it was loaded just before the pic was taken I belive the lead would Ozidize and get dull and grey with age, it looks too shiny to be an old load. As some are saying, it appears it may be a tourist wall hanging piece.

P

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

There is definitely something wrong with the breech area. Either the gun is still loaded or that breech plug is extremely odd.