A bud dug this up awhile ago

[Mark Lynch]

This was plowed up a couple of years ago in mid Michigan. I'm trying to see if anyone here has a clue as to what it used to be eyons ago.

The capbox is german silver, the but plate and toe kick are brass. The trigger assembly is german silver/brass combo and still works.

I was hoping someone here might have a idea as to what it might have been by the shape of the cap box or sumthin.

A very old indian squatter/hermit lived in a shack just a few yards from where this was plowed up. And I hear his family lived in the same meadow as well before him.

 

[Otter]

Maybe an old Leman?

 

[Mark Lynch]

Hi Otter, might be. The drop of the stock doesnt suggest it but the narrow lines does. The cap box is very close to a few pics I've seen, and the butt plate is nearly identical to the one I have here at home.

I'm kinda thinking it might be a Ohio plains rifle. The lack of drop in the heal kinda says "half stock" to me. I don't know much about them but I heard they tended to use many different styles of gun building all wrapped up into one. :hmm:

 

[musketman]

This was plowed up a couple of years ago in mid Michigan. I'm trying to see if anyone here has a clue as to what it used to be eyons ago.

A very old indian squatter/hermit lived in a shack just a few yards from where this was plowed up. And I hear his family lived in the same meadow as well before him.

Perhaps a field trip to the same meadow with a metal dectector is in order, I'm sure the rest of the gun is still waiting to be unearthed... :hmm: :winking:

Careful thought, if you find the barrel it could still be loaded... :grin:

p.s. What is in the patchbox?

 

[netoleon]

Brief forensic observations, food-for-thought category:

For sure it's "old", but if it's 19th cent., it spent most of it's life above ground. If that came up with a moldboard, or a shank, it wasn't any deeper than about 15" down. That's well within reach of plant roots, surface-source moisture and aerobic microorganisms that cause rapid decay. Buried wood that's real deep, and away from most microbial activity, can remain largely intact for a long time. But I'd reckon that gun had only been buried for, say, less than about 30 years. Good thing you don't have that many termites up in MI, down here there'd be nothing left but metal.

Credits - I need to thank my wife for "knowledge transfer" here, she's the archaeologist in the family.

 

A picture showing the lock mortice would be nice. You might contact the michgan metal detector club on line and see if anyone would want to go hunting with you.Yes the barrel could be still loaded and hot. Bob

 

[BLAHMAN]

This is a true test of our creative talents. I say make a gun out of it! :haha:

 

[marmot]

The mortise for that sitting deer on the cheek area really jumps out out me... somewhere I have seen a picture of an intact gun with an identical inlay, in silver... but I can't remember where! A search is in order here, as that might help identify the piece...

M

 

[Mark Lynch]

I'm being told that a metal detector is out of the question. The new owners of the property won't allow anyone to look further. :hmm:

As to what kind of gun it is....the Lehman guess is perhaps as close as I'll ever come to knowing. The shape of the in-letting of the trigger guard suggests that its possible.

There's nuttin in the patch box but we haven't taken it off to see if theres any inscription. The hole is straight walled and very round with a flat bottom....very clean cut to say the least. Looks like a well designed bottoming auger bit was used.

The toe plate was riveted to the but stock with a brass rivet. The inlay of the stag on the cheek piece has me a bit baffled. (not that it takes too much) But I was unaware of that sort of inlay being very old.

Now, as to the smart butt comment of making a gun outta it, how about if I use the parts in two rifles? We're thinking of using the patch box on a Lyman great planes that we are currently giving a massive face lift. And the butt-plate and triggers may well go onto a Bedford county rifle I'm toying with the idea of starting to acquire a few pieces so in a year or so I can get onto another one. Of course I have to finish the hawken and one or two under-hammers first.

I am nearly finished with the half stocker "kentuckian" I started a few weeks ago now. Did my very first raised carving and a bunch of the groove vining style of carving with several inlays and some Fleur deli. I'd talk more on her but she's a flinter. :thumbsup: She should be finished in a few more weeks...doing the final sanding now.....I'll post pics when she's done over in the correct area.

 

[marmot]

Ah-Ha! I'm not losing my mind, at least not all of it... In the October 2004 MuzzleBlasts there is an article on David Hilliard by RW Ballou, page 4, wherein an underhammer rifle is shown with a very similar cheekpiece inlay (not identical, but VERY similar). According to the article Mr. Hilliard was active in New Hampshire from about 1842 till 1877, and also produced sidelocks; pictures of those in the article match the profile of your stock very nicely. Additionally, the patchbox profile is similar, and the three shown clearly in the article show diversity amongst known Hilliard guns. Nothing conclusive here, but the inlay, capbox, and stock profile similarities are striking... An immigrant from New England to the fertile fields of the midwest?

M

 

[AZ-Robert]

Ah-Ha! I'm not losing my mind, at least not all of it... In the October 2004 MuzzleBlasts there is an article...

Excellent memory!

 

[marmot]

Memory? More like sudden inspiration just as I hit the "send" button... plus a stack of readily available back issues to search through! But now, how 'bout somebody else with a copy of that article look at it and see if you see the similarities, or if my imagination is too active?

M

 

[Toomuch_36]

Memory? More like sudden inspiration just as I hit the "send" button... plus a stack of readily available back issues to search through! But now, how 'bout somebody else with a copy of that article look at it and see if you see the similarities, or if my imagination is too active?

M

I think you are on to something here Marmot. :thumbsup:
The only obvious difference that I can see (if you can call it that) is the Hilliard rifles pictured in MB all seem to have a straight trigger and the one on Hunter's stock is curved.

Toomuch
..............
Shoot Flint

 

[Mark Lynch]

Doggonnit! I can't find my copy.

Its my first and only one to date and I can't find it!.....have to talk to my buddy. (book worm/college professor/pastor's son/black powder lover/good feller to know) But, if its a book of guns and not nailed down its his to read at least twice.

I think he spends waaaaaay to much time in the john. :grin:

 

[Mark Lynch]

Hey guys, how does one get onto a mailing list for "Muzzle Blast"? That a part of the NMRLA?

I seem to be a member of the black powder hunting assoc and recieve "Blackpowder Hunting" magazine only.

 

[paulvallandigham]

To get Muzzle Blasts You have to join the NMLRA. It is the official magazine, or journal of the Associations. Check the links for details and application.

 

[Mark Lynch]

That is about what I thought. Thats one of the only organizations that I'm not a life member of.

Time to start saving pennies again. Thanks.

 

[gmww]

Hey buddy, welcome to the forum. You might contact Ratus as he was doing a registration drive for NMLRA. He signed me up a couple of months ago. :hatsoff:

 

[Mark Lynch]

Yup, I remember that....probably should have gone thru with it then. I keep becoming life members all over the place and I keep finding out I'm missing one more. :hmm:

 

[Slake]

You should pony up some cash to protect your second amendment[url] rights....join[/url] the National Rifle Association....and you should go further and also join the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association...these groups keep our rights safe...it is money well spent...do it

Muzzles Blasts comes with your NMLRA membership