A new high price for a T/C Hawken

[Elkhorse]

GB sale last nite
Investarms .58 right hand percussion Hawken, refurbished stock.
Sold for $781.99
Makes me think of selling my unfired left hander!!!

 

[nkbj]

TC's are like any other rifle; some won't shoot good.
But a 48" twist is typically good for round ball or a longer bullet properly designed for that slow of a twist.
Did yall see the long range shooting recently posted on the site from a stock TC .50 barrel?
Shazzam!

 

[FishDFly]

Folks at time bad mouth the 1 in 48 twist, wonder why the Hawken brothers settled on that twist?

 

[Crockford]

I stopped by 4 different pawnshops yesterday. All of them said they have not had any muzzleloaders come in, in over 2 years. One of the owners said he would only pay up to $50 for one. 2 other owners said they don't buy them at all, because there is no market for them. 1 owner put my name on a list to call if one shows up. So it is crazy to me that the pawn market in my area sees no value in any muzzleloaders, but I'm seeing crazy numbers on auction sites. It seems the Baby Boomer's were the biggest buyers from the 60's to now. So one would think the market would be flooded with handed down guns. It doesn't seem like the new generation of youngsters have much interest in them. I guess the man cave wall hanger market is driving the value up?

 

[Old Hawkeye]

I found that the Renegade barrel twist rate (1 in 48”) isn’t perfect for either minie or roundball. If you can, order a green mountain barrel with a twist rate of 1 in 66”.
You’ll be very happy with that barrel and your groups, provided your shooting PRBs. I found that 80 gns of FFG triple 7 seems to be the magic formula for my .54 cal. All I need to really tighten up my groups is to locate a tang peep site for my baby. My eyes aren’t what they used to be.

Why do all the old original Hawken rifles on display in museums have a 1 in 48 twist then? Weren't they intentionally built to shoot a patched round ball? Lots of contradictory information on this site that I think confuses people. Why is a 66 twist better for round ball than a 48? Just curious. BTW, my 48 twist barrels shoot round ball very well.

 

[Lonewalker]

The only folks who cry when things like guns actually appreciate in value are folks who wish they woulda when they shoulda
I sincerely hope each gets as much as they can for everything they sell.

 

[Daveboone]

I found that the Renegade barrel twist rate (1 in 48”) isn’t perfect for either minie or roundball. If you can, order a green mountain barrel with a twist rate of 1 in 66”.
You’ll be very happy with that barrel and your groups, provided your shooting PRBs. I found that 80 gns of FFG triple 7 seems to be the magic formula for my .54 cal. All I need to really tighten up my groups is to locate a tang peep site for my baby. My eyes aren’t what they used to be.

Thanks for the advice. I hope to keep the investment down in it, so will start with optimizing the trigger pull and some decent sights. The curved rear sight blade it has is just horrible. From there I will play with the ball size and patches, and a new bbl will be a last resort.

 

[Mogadishu Meanderer]

The only folks who cry when things like guns actually appreciate in value are folks who wish they woulda when they shoulda
I sincerely hope each gets as much as they can for everything they sell.

Lonewalker, you couldn’t have put better! Same thing happens with caps, I remember all the crying about Remington 10s and 11s going for 4.99 at Walmart, outrageous, until the drought, when people were paying 59.00 for ONE tin on eBay! Made 4.99 look like a great deal. Those of us who bought 5,000 at 4.99 a tin now are accused of being hoarders. Same with guns, in 2030 we will be wishing we paid $1,100 for a pristine Hawken in 2021! I remembered when no one wanted ROAs, you see, they were stupid guns, not really “original”, a “copy” of the 1858 and so on… you could buy them for $150 at gun shows, in the box, which I did acquired 6 of them. Now, they are going for over $1000. Just a matter of perspective! People complaint about a Hawken not been worth a $1000, really? Ask the guy who just BOUGHT it!!

 

[#BPBReloadingFFL]

I had a TC here that was out of the custom shop, barrel with stamp from them. I think it sold for around $400. Had three other guns here CVA couple of TC's and an ultra high or something like that and I couldn't sell them. Prices were low enough nobody would buy them. I tore them down ,posted the parts up & they all sold for more than when I was asking for the whole gun. This was maybe 3 years back.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Why do all the old original Hawken rifles on display in museums have a 1 in 48 twist then? Weren't they intentionally built to shoot a patched round ball? Lots of contradictory information on this site that I think confuses people. Why is a 66 twist better for round ball than a 48? Just curious. BTW, my 48 twist barrels shoot round ball very well.

With respect to the 1 in 48 twist that was used by Sam and Jake Hawken and many other barrel makers, its the depth of the rifling that makes the barrel suitable for patched round ball accuracy. The 1 in 66 twist is good for patched ball accuracy because the grooves are deeper than the button rifled barrels and the patch can engage the rifling better.

 

[Okie Hog]

Every month i make the rounds of Lawton pawnshops. Shops here very seldom have conventional muzzleloaders on the racks, shop owners say they don't sell.

 

[Okie Hog]

wonder why the Hawken brothers settled on that twist?

That was the twist rate of the rifling jig they took west.

 

[1971fx]

five of my hawkens

 

[Mogadishu Meanderer]

I had a TC here that was out of the custom shop, barrel with stamp from them. I think it sold for around $400. Had three other guns here CVA couple of TC's and an ultra high or something like that and I couldn't sell them. Prices were low enough nobody would buy them. I tore them down ,posted the parts up & they all sold for more than when I was asking for the whole gun. This was maybe 3 years back.

You are right, it’s just the evenflo of the desirability is hard to predict. I have seen people do the same with ROA’s on eBay or GB, they make twice as much by field dressing it or butchering it. I believe the times when prices are coming back down on guns and guns supplies are over. Shooting ammunition or black powder like we used to will be minimal, as it almost hurts now, money wise. Supplies stocks (powder, caps, ammo) will be as valuable as gun collections. That’s what I think!

 

[Bad Karma]

Actually there were 2 different types (grades) of TC rifles. There was the run of the mill rifles which were shipped. Then there was the rifles that came out of the custom shop.

I bought a Seneca .32 from a member here. The owner reported that the barrel "rifling" was knackered and it's accuracy was poor. He sent the rifle to Ed Rayl and had it re-bored to .40. It had what I would call presentation wood, it was on par with Pecatonica stocks. The bluing on it was the quality that you see on Browning modern guns, it was quality bluing. It had the early peep sight and the ram rod was brass, the original ram rod had been broken.

I have a TC Cleland, they were only available from the Custom shop, it has never been shot.

I’ve got one Renegade with the highly figured wood. Under the barrel it’s marked “Ren Pres“ clearly marked so by the manufacturer.
wrt the locks and reliability, I’ve been shooting them since they came out in the seventies. Never had any parts break or require repair or replacement. I don’t shoot flintlocks, I suppose they could be unreliable.

 

[Urban Coyote]

Not too long ago I found myself bidding on a T/C Renegade with a T/C 1 in 66" barrel, excellent wood and overall condition, I backed off at $580. Had I won the auction, it sold for $580, I'd have needed to add 10%, my state's sale tax, plus shipping, about $50 as I recall. My end cost would have been about $709. For you math checkers I added credit card charges of 3%, conservatively.

After watching T/C prices sold at auction and the conditon of some has left me wondering if I should have bailed.

Here's the deal, where can you buy a new American made traditional muzzleloader short of a semi-custom or custom anymore? Couple this with the fact there are a whole lot of traditional muzzleloaders out there that are in questionable condition from abuse, read not properly cleaned in most cases. I'd not be surprised to see prices for solid traditional muzzleloaders climb. Fact is the modern muzzleloader crowd who lobbied to take the primitive out of many state seasons has canceled out the market for traditional muzzleloaders.

 

[Rudyard]

Iv'e seen T C rifles with gold inlaid Buffalos at Dixons fair one year . No accounting for taste. I wouldn't want one as gift but then I roll my own guns and admit to being an appalling snob regarding factory disgorged guns .
Rudyard

 

[FishDFly]

"People complaint about a Hawken not been worth a $1000, really? Ask the guy who just BOUGHT it!!"

One guy bought one TX Hawken for $1,000. To really judge the market, what would be interesting is six (6) TC Hawkens listed by six (6) different sellers at $1,000 each to see how long it took them to sell them. That would be a better judge of the market place.

 

[Mogadishu Meanderer]

"People complaint about a Hawken not been worth a $1000, really? Ask the guy who just BOUGHT it!!"

One guy bought one TX Hawken for $1,000. To really judge the market, what would be interesting is six (6) TC Hawkens listed by six (6) different sellers at $1,000 each to see how long it took them to sell them. That would be a better judge of the market place.

I agree but THAT one was worth $1000 to someone, sometimes is weird on auction sites because if you start it at $1000 probably will not sell ( it may look suspicious) but if you start a penny auction it will get more than a $1000, just how the brain works. I guess my point was that there is always someone, somewhere willing to pay for it because they can and they want it, whether is worth it or not is irrelevant because the persons don’t care about that. Those are the people we have to compete with, and is getting tougher to do so. I saw that with caps, some people paying 60 bucks for 100 tin because it will last them a lifetime. They don’t care, it’s only once in a lifetime.The internet has changed the way we do business for sure. What is insanely priced on a local shop in Tennessee for example, is really “cheap” for someone in New England, if the shop places it on the net, it s sold!

 

[J. Paul]

I guess I need to get my believer fixed. A T/C Hawken flintlock with "Presentation" wood just sold for over $1100 on GB!
I guess the new owner really like T/C rifles.

When I bought my kit almost 20 years ago I paid almost 900 ordering directly from them. Percussion available almost everywhere but not a single flinter without direct order