A Tale of Two Calivers (picture intense)

[MacRob46]

Ricky..

You are probably thinking of Blackley and Son in England. They offer all sorts of locks. www.blackleyandson.com, I think.

 

[rickystl]

Thanks Rob!! This time I will write it down and add it to my potential supplier list. Thanks again. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[MacRob46]

Glad to help. The URL is correct for the company which is E. J. Blackley and Sons.

 

[Alden]

To be clear, the miquelet lock was hand made by Mike at Pirate Fashions.

I know Mr. Day by the way. He doesn't eat grits but he has made, finished, and repaired items for me including two of the fishtails above, one with an interchangeable matchlock, for the past two decades. However, I didn't say he made the other caliver here...

Not to take my own thread off topic but there was also a fella in Romania who used to make a miquelet (as John Buck alleged he did), including a theatrical version that snapped hidden caps, but he fell off the face. Guy out in California too who was well known in certain Rondy circles but can't remember his name offhand...

 

[rickystl]

Thanks Alden. And thanks for starting this Thread. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[nit wit]

Alden:
Great photos. You do have to give Pirate Fashions credit on being ahead of the safety curve.You must have noticed the ring at the muzzle. I believe it to be their patented split reducer.Not all makers do this! :rotf:
Nit Wit

 

[curator]

The miquelet escopeta I viewed at Pirate fashions St Augustine about a year ago appeared to have a Rifle Shoppe (Norman, OK) lock. It was nearly identical to a rough castings lock parts kit I bought from TRS in '89. It was well done and nicely polished. TRS occasionally has completed miquelet locks for sale, but ordering one is an exercise in patience. I have built two from their parts kits and they were a lot of work.

 

[Alden]

I don't what lock you may have seen, and won't go into detail, but will say that I know of three other miquelet locks that the Pirates built. One was a duplicate of mine which was the prototype and test lock. The prior two...

...were made, sold to an historic site, and subsequently recognized as being poor, small, examples hence the Pirates going back to the drawing board.

 

[Renegade Dan]

Way Cool! :thumbsup:

 

[Alden]

I shipped the guns back and am awaiting refund less shipping -- the Pirates were OK with this. I did NOT ask them to split the $400 more they are selling these guns for today than I paid...

Here is their response and pic.

"Ahoy Matie,

The parcel came in safely a few days ago. Here be arrrr findings.

The problem we have seen in your photo as well as with the returned matchlock is over tightened lock screws which caused the mechanism to jam and not work freely. This results in the shortened serpentine movement that would give you the impression that the serpentine would be misaligned with the pan." [Note: I had the lock out as you know and can see how badly they "timed" it. Alden]

"As in the attached photo, you can see that the match aligns perfectly with the pan when the tiller is pressed in. It does not need to fall all the way to the pan, some space for the end of the match is needed (or it would put out the match)." [Whatever. I won't even comment any further. Alden]



"The pan is in the correct position, which lines up with the touch hole at the face of the breech plug. The flash guard always aligns with the very back of the breech."

"The touch hole is at the bottom of the pan to allow the pan to act as a flash guard, this allows the matchlock to be used on National Park site without an additional flash guard. There are many people who do drill the touch hole higher on the barrel, but these guns are not usually allowed at National Park sites due to the fact that the flash from the touch hole can injure a person next to them."

"The tiller can also come unscrewed which affects the range of motion of the serpentine. Make sure that the tiller is fully tightened to allow proper functioning. The tiller has to be removable so that the gun can be cleaned."

"About the serpentine wobbling in all directions, some wobbling is need for the serpentine to have the space to move. All matchlocks have to have this wobble or else they seize up and not function. Unlike a flintlock which is under constant spring tension and made to much tighter tolerances, a matchlock uses a simple spring lever mechanism and is made to looser tolerance."

"Other makes of matchlock have thicker serpentine because they are cast from mild steel. We used a forged spring steel which is stronger and doesn't been to be as thick (which is more correct to the period)."


Now let me show you the carp they had made as a snaplock which was also returned:

 

[robinghewitt]

Reminds me of when I bought a c1640 ECW matchlock barrel in a piece of worm wood with no lock. Cost me about 600 bucks from Peter Dyson.

I couldn't quite figure out what had gone wrong so I replaced the lock, loaded it with #8 shot and fired it.

On the second shot it miraculously reverted to exactly the same condition it was in when I bought it.

It also got stuck in the corner and forgotten exactly like the last time someone fired it.

History repeated itself :idunno: :rotf:

 

[Alden]

Well, I'll say this, ya gotta give these guys an Aarrrgh for effort...

"Ahoy Matie,


Yar [refund] check be going out on today's tide, arrrrgh!


Tiger"

 

[rickystl]

Hi Alden. Well, I'm glad to hear you are receiving what appears to be a hassel-free refund.
I was looking at these photos again. The difference in workmanship in every aspect is striking. Thanks for starting this Thread. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[GrumpyBadger]

Ricky..

You are probably thinking of Blackley and Son in England. They offer all sorts of locks. www.blackleyandson.com, I think.

thankyou for posting this! :hatsoff: definitely a great resource for sure.

Alden, thanks for doing this thread in general, it's a real eye-opener.

It's a shame about these guns from Piratefashions... as you and others have said, they're in a prime market, and it's theirs to lose.

as a whole, I could see their venture working out quite successfully, IF they approached it professionally and did what they claim. When I saw the lack of quality in their clothing (I'm a budding tailor myself) is what got me first concerned.

When I was looking at a few of their guns myself, I basically figured with their asking price they were "made in India, improved here" type of deal. I was thinking something very similar to an Uberti CAS gun being rebuilt here from a competent gunsmith.

seeing their barrels alone on these guns makes me quite sad, let alone the rest of the "work."

oh well, we live and we learn right? At least they took the gun back. (on an aside, did they seriously try to talk in "pirate" in the e-mail?! wow...)

 

[Alden]

Grumpy;
I did not edit their wording at all -- only fair to give them their say as is. I will add that after their insulting defense of such junk I was compelled to tell them just how unprofessional I really thought it was a little less clinically.

Not only do they talk in "pirate" on their site and in the e-Mails, which is sorta cute at first, but if you call them or go in to the shop they do it too... They've stopped in the middle of a sentence when someone comes in to yell something that sounds like "avatht yee matey, welcome aboard Pirate Fathionth -- ooga."

Clothes bad too? Beginning to sound like the whole place is a poop deck...

 

[GrumpyBadger]

Grumpy;
Clothes bad too? Beginning to sound like the whole place is a poop deck...

my thoughts exactly. Here, let me show you examples of what I mean as far as garb -

first off, let's start with some archaeological evidence -
1690's French Joustacorps (also affectionately called a "Pirate's Coat" )

and some replicas that have inspired me and I have found to be within standing:

waistcoats:

it's all in the details. The cloth buttons, rather than fake plastic "metallic" ones, or coin buttons

or military:

an original
vs a replica that does just fine in my opinion, having seen it first hand (of course, seeing it while sailing the HMS Surprise/Rose may lend me to be a bit biased)

but even then, up close, the jacket has faults

but they're few and only for the most discerning eye.

Basically, people want to spend less than $100 on a pirate coat. K. They'll get crap. "You get what you paid for."

The joustacorps and coats I have shown that are replicas, are made custom tailored to the individual, and start at probably $500. The Royal Navy coat is over $1500...

when I saw piratefashions had "costume" pirate garb, instead of "reenactment" garb, I basically felt their weapons would be much the same.

which is a shame. It's hard to find a good matchlock, even though they aren't all that difficult in function

it's a shame too, watching their videos, with the weapons, and how they handle them, and describe them, it made me hopeful at least their weapons were good.

simple point I'm thinking... they maybe got over-run, OR the gunsmith is top-rate, but he's being held back by "required numbers" vs quality.

 

[Musketeer]

when I saw piratefashions had "costume" pirate garb, instead of "reenactment" garb, I basically felt their weapons would be much the same.

which is a shame. It's hard to find a good matchlock, even though they aren't all that difficult in function

it's a shame too, watching their videos, with the weapons, and how they handle them, and describe them, it made me hopeful at least their weapons were good.

I agree. I was looking at their "caliver" a couple years back and thinking of giving it a try. After this thread, I'm just as glad I didn't.

 

[Alden]

Grumpy;
Those are some nice clothes and beautiful fabrics and trim. Made my own regimental by hand so appreciate a little of what goes into them.

As for being hopeful about the Pirates guys, from experience I actually had cause to be more than that -- optimistic and trusting. Seems the only hope was their getting away with such poor execution.

 

[pargent]

Went to the website , not only do they specialise in rubbish but deal with them and rape and plunder of the unsuspecting wallet is on as well.

 

[MacRob46]

I note that their matchlock rifle, still being made but expected to be finished this month, is still on sale for $50,000, but should be $80,000 according to them. There is no way to tell much about it because when you try to look at the detail by mousing over the thumbnails, another gun comes up. I seriously doubt it is worth the current asking price, much less their "should be" price but who can tell? I looked at one of their videos on shooting their products, don't remember which one and the guy doing the demo could never get the pistol to fire. He just stood there as the video ended. I hate to keep bashing these folks but frankly they are asking for it.