A Very General Opinion Question

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FrDoc

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I, probably more than most, know that folks generally have some very specific opinions about matters in life, 9mm vs. .45, Ford vs. Chevy, etc., etc.. So, I want to start this by stating I am not looking for input on makes, calibers, flint, or percussion. I have been researching BP stuff for months and have found it to be one of the most interesting categories of shooting sports, out of the many many I have studied, and in which I have been involved. So, I do not want to collect (I just thinned the herd in my gun safe within the past few weeks), and I won’t be shooting hundreds of rounds a month. Consequently, I am looking at obtaining a pistol or two, a rifle, and a shotgun. My question is very specifically, given your experience with quality, e.g., longevity of service, and minimal tinkering to get a muzzleloader to where it needs to be, should I be looking at a higher end production model, for example Pedersoli, or a lower end (or used) custom model. I don’t mind spending money for quality, but I will not spend a lot on something that should be in a display case instead of being outside in the weather and having explosive powder regularly ignited within it. My outlay threshold will be no more than 1000 per item (a tad more for the long guns if it were super-awesome), and to clarify I’m pretty familiar with the going rates of the various items. P.S. I’m not interested in antiques as I am not a museum curator.
 
I always find it’s cheaper and more satisfying to buy quality. Buying an inexpensive muzzle loader is for people that want to work on them and fuss around trying to get them to work. Hand built guns can be just as problematic as a factory built if not done correctly, that means you must be able to recognize quality.
 
I, probably more than most, know that folks generally have some very specific opinions about matters in life, 9mm vs. .45, Ford vs. Chevy, etc., etc.. So, I want to start this by stating I am not looking for input on makes, calibers, flint, or percussion. I have been researching BP stuff for months and have found it to be one of the most interesting categories of shooting sports, out of the many many I have studied, and in which I have been involved. So, I do not want to collect (I just thinned the herd in my gun safe within the past few weeks), and I won’t be shooting hundreds of rounds a month. Consequently, I am looking at obtaining a pistol or two, a rifle, and a shotgun. My question is very specifically, given your experience with quality, e.g., longevity of service, and minimal tinkering to get a muzzleloader to where it needs to be, should I be looking at a higher end production model, for example Pedersoli, or a lower end (or used) custom model. I don’t mind spending money for quality, but I will not spend a lot on something that should be in a display case instead of being outside in the weather and having explosive powder regularly ignited within it. My outlay threshold will be no more than 1000 per item (a tad more for the long guns if it were super-awesome), and to clarify I’m pretty familiar with the going rates of the various items. P.S. I’m not interested in antiques as I am not a museum curator.
You have such an extended request. It will help us help you if you have a starting point. What do you want to start with? My preference when I started was a flintlock rifle. Tell us you preference to start and build from there.
That is my two cents.
Larry
 
Generally one should buy the best tool that one can afford, but how does one determine what is best and what is just higher priced if not familiar with all the intricacies of the tool and it's use?
I'm of the opinion that any used gun will do until you've encountered and overcome all the possible problems that muzzle loading can have. Once you have some knowledge you will find that you have opinions and preferences of your own, which might be very different than mine or theirs.
Don't expect your first muzzleloader to be the one that fills all your requirements, at this point you probably don't know what those requirements are.
But, if the first is a top ranked piece it will be easier to get rid of when you decide what you really want, so ..
 
I've found my most fun for shotguns have been originals in good shape. Uncomplicated. Held value exceptionally well and versatile. Modern design pistols Ruger Old Army and Tingles have given me zero problems but are not historically correct. Rifles - I've had originals with obviously flawed bores that greatly appreciated in value but were strictly short range so-so affairs but fun to fool with. After many decades of enjoying M/L's, I've found junk remains junk - no matter what it is. Selling three or four clunkers to get one keeper is good ju-ju. Buy once, cry once.
 
Ruger old army for the pistol Pietta or Pedersoli Or Navy Arms or CVA shotgun The rifle can really be just whatever catches your eye I have Thompson Center and CVA and Remington Traditions Knight Dixie Gun Works Investarms and more .My point in all that is That all of them fire when I pull the trigger . Others will try to convince you otherwise If you buy something that does not suit you sale it and buy a different brand
 
$1000 is about parts cost for a custom gun build. “Super awesome” is getting upwards of $2500 for a used rifle. If you buy nice, you don’t buy twice. Don’t know about pistols or shotguns.
Ha! You misunderstand my use of the term “super awesome”. For an aficionado it’s upwards of 2.5K, for me it means something used, that looks pretty cool, works without much tinkering, and costs about a grand. So yeah, some of my terminology is subjective. Thanks indeed for the response!
 
I, probably more than most, know that folks generally have some very specific opinions about matters in life, 9mm vs. .45, Ford vs. Chevy, etc., etc.. So, I want to start this by stating I am not looking for input on makes, calibers, flint, or percussion. I have been researching BP stuff for months and have found it to be one of the most interesting categories of shooting sports, out of the many many I have studied, and in which I have been involved. So, I do not want to collect (I just thinned the herd in my gun safe within the past few weeks), and I won’t be shooting hundreds of rounds a month. Consequently, I am looking at obtaining a pistol or two, a rifle, and a shotgun. My question is very specifically, given your experience with quality, e.g., longevity of service, and minimal tinkering to get a muzzleloader to where it needs to be, should I be looking at a higher end production model, for example Pedersoli, or a lower end (or used) custom model. I don’t mind spending money for quality, but I will not spend a lot on something that should be in a display case instead of being outside in the weather and having explosive powder regularly ignited within it. My outlay threshold will be no more than 1000 per item (a tad more for the long guns if it were super-awesome), and to clarify I’m pretty familiar with the going rates of the various items. P.S. I’m not interested in antiques as I am not a museum curator.
One of the first things you need to decide about the non-shotgun long gun is do you want a civilian/hunting gun or military musket?
That’s the first fork in the road you will encounter.
Buy quality. When the price tag approaches $1,000 I would start looking more at a custom/used custom than an Italian repro.
If you want a flint lock, forget Italian. Lock quality on the Italian guns is very much hit or miss. As we speak, I have in my garage a Pedersoli Harpers Ferry flint lock pistol that a friend of mine bought new 2 years ago. The lock is crap.
I removed the lock and sent to the renowned flint lock tuner Brad Emig. He returned it a few weeks later. He had spent a lot of time with this one, doing everything he could think of with little result. He told me over the phone that some of those Italian flint locks are beyond fixing.
When Brad Emig tells you hour lock is crap you are pretty much out of luck.
You can get by spending a little less on a percussion gun. The locks are cheaper to make and tune at the factory, and often a really crappy percussion lock will het you by.
 
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It depends on what is most important to you. Fit and finish, beautiful stock, historically correct, mechanically sound, or a good shooter. Anything using an Investarms barrel will be a good shooter. Almost anything right out of the box will need some tinkering. Fact of life dealing with new BP firearms. You can get a good looking, very good shooting rifle in the $5-700 range if you are not obsessive about fit and finish. I did cough up $2600 for a Pedersoli Sharps and feel it was well worth it. Others feel Pedersoli is way overpriced. A Pietta or Uberti pistol, whatever model appeals to you, should serve you. Sort of luck of the draw as to the quality you get on a new order. As with anything, nothing beats buying in person.
 
Ill second what Ed C says. Buying online can be hit or miss. Buying custom is good but remember if your going to put serious money up. Stick with the well known builders. But your going to have to wait awhile an maybe a long while.
Oh and this is no negative towards you gun builders I don't know.
 
I, probably more than most, know that folks generally have some very specific opinions about matters in life, 9mm vs. .45, Ford vs. Chevy, etc., etc.. So, I want to start this by stating I am not looking for input on makes, calibers, flint, or percussion. I have been researching BP stuff for months and have found it to be one of the most interesting categories of shooting sports, out of the many many I have studied, and in which I have been involved. So, I do not want to collect (I just thinned the herd in my gun safe within the past few weeks), and I won’t be shooting hundreds of rounds a month. Consequently, I am looking at obtaining a pistol or two, a rifle, and a shotgun. My question is very specifically, given your experience with quality, e.g., longevity of service, and minimal tinkering to get a muzzleloader to where it needs to be, should I be looking at a higher end production model, for example Pedersoli, or a lower end (or used) custom model. I don’t mind spending money for quality, but I will not spend a lot on something that should be in a display case instead of being outside in the weather and having explosive powder regularly ignited within it. My outlay threshold will be no more than 1000 per item (a tad more for the long guns if it were super-awesome), and to clarify I’m pretty familiar with the going rates of the various items. P.S. I’m not interested in antiques as I am not a museum curator.
If you’re looking for a factory built percussion you could do a lot worse than Pedersoli. Well built and accurate barrels.
If you’re looking for flintlocks consider a used one from a respected builder or build a Kibler. American made quality throughout and an excellent reliable lock.
Nothing will discourage a new flintlock shooter more than a substandard lock.
 
I'm of the opinion that there are extremely fine CVA's and TC's case in point I happen to own what I consider to be presentation guns and they are a joy to shoot/hunt with and I don't have a $1k in any one of them for the most part I paid less then $ 500 for them each over the last 30 years. According to current prices/market worth much more $ I guess if I was starting out I would look for a new or used current production gun and shoot the hell out of it then when you have the learning under your belt upgrade
 
Depends a lot on your use/abuse of the gun. I'm a hunter. I only buy things I plan to hunt with. So I won't spend a whole lot on something that can't take some level of abuse. Pedersolis are good in percussion but I've been very disappointed with them in flintlock. For flints, if you plan to shoot it regularly, I'd wait to get something like a Kibler or other quality-made gun over getting anything on the production market. They're much more expensive. But they are far less likely to disappoint.

On the percussion side, I don't think they offer anything special over a Traditions or TC. But they have more styles to fit your fancy. They do oddball stuff, too -- like put 1:48 twists on Kentucky/PA rifles. I don't really care for that. But it's workable.
 
Always best to but the best you can. Get something good and pay for it. If you buy inexpensive that's on you.
In flintlocks the lock is everything - do not settle for less.
A good rifle that is well made from a good builder will have a good barrel and a great lock.
You can acquire a good rifle from kits like Kibler. Put it together yourself or pay a builder to do it for you. You end up with a great rifle.
The best builders are not inexpensive - and for a very good reason - like experience and knowledge , craftsmanship and art.
Some of the best you will find can be seen at the more notable shows - The Faire at Kempton, PA and the Artisans Faire in Carlisle, PA as examples.

Know what you want before you buy. Then buy the best you can. And you'll likely love it and keep it forever.
If it costs you 2K to 4K you will have exactly what you are after. Don't skimp on a good rifle.
 
There are posters here on this forum that seem to enjoy buying, assembling and then reselling Kibler rifles. Just be patient. For the price of Pedersoli's you can buy a Kibler which is a MUCH better rifle IMHO.
Very well said and IMHO, there is no comparison between the quality of the two locks. Pedersoli flintlocks are at best “useable” (their larger military locks) and at worst “dismal” (their smaller locks like the frontier). L&R specifically makes upgrade locks to replace those. At least that has been my experience. Kibler’s and possibly Chambers locks shine in design and functionality/reliability. You will not be disappointed with Jim Kibler’s kits. As someone previously posted something similar, the flintlock mechanism itself is the heart and soul of the gun. Buy the best, don’t wish you had.
 
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