A Very Unique Ruger Old Army

[Rum River]

Wow, that .50 caliber is impressive.

I followed up with Mr. Clements, he did not do the work either.
There are a couple of other leads I'm trying, it's become a matter of principle now.

No range time today, stove up my hands unloading woodworking equipment.
I broke my rule number two.

Rule #1: Muzzle Direction
Rule #2: Try Not To Be Any More Stupid Than You Can Help

Using this short list I really don't need a Rule #3.

 

[D. Buck Stopshere]

I don’t think this is designed for CAS, but rather its likely geared to NMLRA national match competition shooting. This kind of shooting requires a whole different set of equipment and accessories. Holsters are not allowed on the line. Competitors load only five chambers, not six. So, the absence of safety notches is not critical, because the competitor turns from the rear loading bench with the revolver hammer resting on the required empty chamber to step to the firing line to start his/her delivery of the five shots.

He/She keeps the grip retained with the shooting hand, and cocks the hammer back with the other hand. The competitor is facing a single bull paper (B-8) pistol target 25 yards away, and will deliver 10 shots, starting with an empty revolver, within the 30 minute relay. They will complete four targets in the revolver agg, three at 25 yards & one at 50 yards.

Concentration is a must because 50 fellow competitors will be spread out on both sides of you on the line, and a competitor on either side of you only three feet from you, will be shooting their ten rounds at the same time in those thirty minutes.

If you’re researching the origin of the pistol’s “maker”, you might be looking for Rob Lewis, the late Dick Bauer, Mike Yazel, the late Tom Ball, or possibly just asking around the Pistol Shack on the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association’s Range at Friendship, IN.

Competition pistols of this sort are transported in a Pachmayr pistol box, which also accommodates the two or three other match pistols that the competitor will be using for the seven days of shooting, made by Yazel, Tri-L, Rob Lewis, Dick Bauer, Lightning, Ten-Ring, or Tom Ball.

My Ruger Old Army .44, made in ’73, is affectionately known as the “Dragoon” Model with the brass backstrap, squared triggerguard, wide trigger, and Super Blackhawk grip frame. Bo-Mar rear sight was milled into the frame and installed by John Videki (think Videki .45 trigger), Patridge front sight by John. 18 grains Swiss 3FG, cream of wheat, .457 RB, T/C Bore Butter on top, RWS #11 caps. 25 yards offhand (one-hand hold) 1993 National Matches, about 100 on the line with me.

 

[Tom Compton]

“Post

I'm enjoying this thread. I would agree, Rum River has a serious competition revolver purpose-built for winning matches. I'm not offended by anything about this revolver's appearance, and would agree the case-coloration is not unlike that seen on some old Colts. I will say the treatment of the loading lever assembly looks very unusual. The other thing is that the shoulders which were between the nipples on the original cyIinder would have had notches to engage the hammer nose, so the revolver could be safely loaded and carried with six rounds. This benefit has been lost, and I would have left that end of the cylinder alone, if it had been me. This is not a criticism, but an observation. I have been told that some serious revolver shooters will only load one chamber for shooting matches. Not one at a time, but they find which chamber shoots best, and they keep loading that one over and over. I've never witnessed such a spectacle... Just something I've heard.

My first thought, when I saw the revolver, was that it might be Hamilton Bowen's work, and I went to his website last night to see if he was offering anything similar. I didn't think of Alex Hamilton, but it looks as if Rum River already checked with both of these expert gunsmiths. David Clements also modified Ruger Old Army revolvers, and it might be worth checking with him. In fact, for a long time he had a five-shot .50 caliber Old Army conversion offered as a package deal, but I don't see this on his website (Clements Custom Guns) now. It was a beast.

I hope Rum River will keep us posted as he "wrings out" this revolver. It's an interesting piece!

I bought a used ROA in the late 80s The first thing I did was bench it seeking the most accurate chamber. Thefirst chamber tested proved to be great (10 straight 10s but I don’t recall the Xs). Right now chamber is the only one that has a nipple in it.

 

[bigted]

The hammer looks god awful, and the color case sloppy.

Glad you enjoy it, though.

EDIT: What is going on with that stunted cylinder?!? Truly a hideous gun!

My ol Granny used to say ... " if ya caint say sumptin nice, say nothin atol"

 

[D. Buck Stopshere]

Notchy Bob,

NMLRA National Rules state that if a competitor wishes to use his/her C & B revolver, such as a ROA, in the
[Single Shot] Pistol Aggregate, they must load and fire only one chamber on the cylinder. Thus, the revolver becomes a "single shot" percussion pistol for that particular aggregate.

So, anyone doing that will discover like Tom Compton above, which of the six chambers shoots the best group. Finding that out, the competitor takes a nail punch and puts a visible, but shallow, dimple on either side of that nipple.

I can show the dimple effect on my custom-made Ruger "Old Navy" .36 caliber revolver cylinder in a day or so.

 

[44-henry]

The hammer looks god awful, and the color case sloppy.

Glad you enjoy it, though.

EDIT: What is going on with that stunted cylinder?!? Truly a hideous gun!

The color case hardening is the bone and wood charcoal type. Looks fine to my eyes and infinitely better than the gaudy cyanide color case that you normally find on reproductions nowadays. The rest of the gun is not to my taste, but to each his own. I am sure it is superbly accurate with the right load.

 

[M. De Land]

Notchy Bob,

NMLRA National Rules state that if a competitor wishes to use his/her C & B revolver, such as a ROA, in the
[Single Shot] Pistol Aggregate, they must load and fire only one chamber on the cylinder. Thus, the revolver becomes a "single shot" percussion pistol for that particular aggregate.

So, anyone doing that will discover like Tom Compton above, which of the six chambers shoots the best group. Finding that out, the competitor takes a nail punch and puts a visible, but shallow, dimple on either side of that nipple.

I can show the dimple effect on my custom-made Ruger "Old Navy" .36 caliber revolver cylinder in a day or so.

This is where line boring really pays off as there will be no disernable difference in any chambers accuracy. Reaming existing chambers all the same diameter will also greatly uniform accuracy potential. Experience has taught me that this is best accomplished with a reamer supporting. barrel hole jig, through the frame hole. It not only uniforms diameter but also makes round holes and helps in aligning barrel to cylinder axis. Most cylinder chambers do not only have difference in diameter but are often not perfectly round either.

 

[M. De Land]

This is where line boring really pays off as there will be no disernable difference in any chambers accuracy. Reaming existing chambers all the same diameter will also greatly uniform accuracy potential. Experience has taught me that this is best accomplished with a reamer supporting. barrel hole jig, through the frame hole. It not only uniforms diameter but also makes round holes and helps in aligning barrel to cylinder axis. Most cylinder chambers do not only have difference in diameter but are often not perfectly round either.

This is a reaming gig made to work in my early Pietta 58 Rem. In practice the barrel is removed from the frame and the jig inserted onto the major barrel thread tops in the frame hole. This centers the jig and the closely internally fit reamer to the center line of the barrel hole. The cylinder is installed and each chamber is indexed by the bolt and each chamber reamed in succession to the same depth. I like the chamber mouths to be at or .001 over the barrels groove diameter.
In my Pietta each chamber has a reduced diameter near the bolt cut notch area for extra strength and the lead angle of the reamer cuts a nice 45 degree shoulder which makes cleaning easy. For ball shooting I like to cut the forcing cone with the 8 degree cutter and for bullets the 11 degree cutter.
This method made an average Pietta revolver shoot more accurately than my ROA which are usually very good from the factory.

 

[Rum River]

Thank you for the pics and explanation. I knew the premise but had never gotten this level of detail before.

 

[Notchy Bob]

Notchy Bob,

NMLRA National Rules state that if a competitor wishes to use his/her C & B revolver, such as a ROA, in the
[Single Shot] Pistol Aggregate, they must load and fire only one chamber on the cylinder. Thus, the revolver becomes a "single shot" percussion pistol for that particular aggregate.

So, anyone doing that will discover like Tom Compton above, which of the six chambers shoots the best group. Finding that out, the competitor takes a nail punch and puts a visible, but shallow, dimple on either side of that nipple.

Thank you for that explanation!

Notchy Bob

 

[user 43911]

Why not try a 4F load, go to about 11:30 on video I posted below

 

[D. Buck Stopshere]

The PO of my Ruger "Old Navy" .36 caliber revolver, custom-made by the late Tom Ball, NMLRA & N-SSA pistolsmith, loaded 14 grains of GOEX 4FG in his target loads. In 1997, he won the NMLRA National Pistol Championship. He shot three black powder handguns, including the .36 caliber revolver on ten events at 25 & 50 yards , all in eight hours on a Saturday, then drove the seven hours back to home to rest up to go back to work on Monday morning. I think some of his national records still stand.

My Ruger "Old Navy .36" will likely show up on this thread sometime in the next couple weeks.

 

[Rum River]

Why not try a 4F load, go to about 11:30 on video I posted below

Wow, that last group was incredible! Also incredible was the fact you could watch the bullet arrive!

 

[M. De Land]

I really like it as well but as a practical matter I would bet it will never be any more accurate than a full size gun used with reduced loads and cream of wheat filler.
I'm also wondering if it can be reloaded with the pistols loading lever? I'm guessing it has to be loaded with the press shown and this means cylinder removal which presents a problem in timed fire events, to me at least. Course with the short cylinder no filler is needed and this reduces one loading step of time but the Ruger take down to remove the cylinder is slower than with a 58 Rem or 60 Colt so it may be a wash as far as time to load is concerned.

 

[M. De Land]

I really like it as well but as a practical matter I would bet it will never be any more accurate than a full size gun used with reduced loads and cream of wheat filler.
I'm also wondering if it can be reloaded with the pistols loading lever? I'm guessing it has to be loaded with the press shown and this means cylinder removal which presents a problem in timed fire events, to me at least. Course with the short cylinder no filler is needed and this reduces one loading step of time but the Ruger take down to remove the cylinder is slower than with a 58 Rem or 60 Colt so it may be a wash as far as time to load is concerned.

About the only weakness I can think of in a ROA is bending the base pin if not fully seated and locked in place by the screw quarter turn, when using the loading lever and they are not made anymore to my knowledge so be careful of this when removing and replacing the cylinder.

 

[ord sgt]

That setup could be for fast draw competition. They use wax bullets.

 

[Rawhide67]

Wouldnt that thing be like trying to fast draw a brick? Those are not light or quick handling guns.

 

[OldNo7]

I can show the dimple effect on my custom-made Ruger "Old Navy" .36 caliber revolver cylinder in a day or so.

It would be great if you'd start a NEW thread on that one -- as it's different.

I always wanted to make a 5-shot "New Navy" in .36 built on a stainless Ruger Single Six frame -- but of course, I never had the time, money or machining skills.

Would like to see more of that one you have. I recall seeing images of the "Target Old Army" that started off this post many years ago.

Old No7

 

[MuayThaiJJ]

That is a cool gun, almost looks like the .22LR early Kirst conversion

 

[fourbore]

Here is a Gunblast article about the Clements .50 caliber Old Army conversion: A Fifty-Caliber Percussion Revolver From Clements Custom Guns

Notchy Bob

This would be more to my taste than the current configuraron of the OP's gun. Usually, these good ideas only seem good until the costs are revealed. I alwasy though the Old Army would benifit from some kind of a power boost.