A Warning about Cleaning and a Question

[Alice1885]

Well i tell ya for years the only thing i use for removing oil from the bore prior to dumping in my powder is plain old RUBBING ALCOHOL. I prefer the 90% plus stuff. This has been workin for me since the 70’s.... just put some on a cleanin patch and run down the bore. Removes all oil residue and evaporates pretty darn quick. Plus its a good thing to have in your shootin bag/box in case of a cut/injury. Lots cheaper than carb cleaner, brake cleaner, or whaterever else ya’all might come up with. Try it ya just might like it.

 

[nhmoose]

I'd really like for someone to explain to me why getting the oil out of the barrel is so critically important.

Spence

For those shooting patent breeches it is a sure way to make it go off the first time after being stored muzzle up and the bore oiled before putting it away.

It would also get rid of 95% of the stuck ball on a shot that did not go off posts.

 

[springfield art]

Yes but where is your tap water coming from? A well? Or a municipal system?

Back in history, it came from the local creek, lake, or well! Just sayin'

 

[springfield art]

I'd really like for someone to explain to me why getting the oil out of the barrel is so critically important.

Spence

I agree! Just a light coat for storing, other than that, you got a point! Have a great Spring!

 

[JCKelly]

According to my wife my brain is already useless. I will stick with soap and water in the future.

Cool water does best to dissolve real black powder resisue.
Soap, all soap, contains a bit of salt from its manufacture. Great for misc oil & grease, but salt water does rust steel.

 

[JCKelly]

According to my wife my brain is already useless. I will stick with soap and water in the future.

American soap, all of it I believe since the 1960’s, contains salt (sodium chloride) as part of its manufacture. Soap is good for removing odd grease and oil, but a little salt does rust steel.

Plain water – cool water, really – is best to dissolve genuine black powder residue. That is chemistry.

 

[hanshi]

I've been cleaning BP guns with whatever water we had, well, tap, etc, for 55 years and it works wonders as it always has. My BP guns are all in excellent plus shape, even the ones from over half a century ago.

Denatured alcohol is all I use in the gun bores; rubbing alcohol has water in it. But rubbing alcohol is fine for barrels and I once used it exclusively. I just like the denatured stuff.

 

[M. De Land]

I agree! Just a light coat for storing, other than that, you got a point! Have a great Spring!

Apparently petroleum based lubes burn and causes carbon fouling which is very tough to remove with anything including water once it gets good an cooked on. Think of a cast iron skillet that gets black and crusty. Animal fat and vegetable oil does not seem to cause the same trouble with black powder combustion in gun barrels as the fouling is readily removed with water.

 

[George]

I'm not convinced. But then, I'm not convinced about a lot of the "gospel" about cleaning and shooting BP guns. Or those magic guns which have a mind of their own and will shoot patterns instead of groups until some arcane, counterintuitive combination of powder amount, brand and granulation, size ball, thickness, weave and color of patch, amount and type of lube is stumbled on.

If I had to jump through all the hoops I see described on these boards in order to get my guns to function I would take up knitting, instead.

But that's just me.

Spence

 

[M. De Land]

I'm not convinced. But then, I'm not convinced about a lot of the "gospel" about cleaning and shooting BP guns. Or those magic guns which have a mind of their own and will shoot patterns instead of groups until some arcane, counterintuitive combination of powder amount, brand and granulation, size ball, thickness, weave and color of patch, amount and type of lube is stumbled on.

If I had to jump through all the hoops I see described on these boards in order to get my guns to function I would take up knitting, instead.

But that's just me.

Spence

Yeah I hear you. I'm shooting well with what I have now but always am up for testing new ideas and products to see if what is said is true. Heck I'm changing my own thinking with new and better information so why not give other's ideas a go as well. Some of it is apple sauce but ever once in a while there's a gold nugget to be picked up so it doens't hurt to listen and give the notion a go for your self.

 

[Erwan]

I've used cold tap water longer than I can remember and it cleans completely. That's all I put in the bore to dissolve BP fouling, nothing else.

You are lucky, I did this a long time ago (not far from forty years) with the oldest of my Hawken, and it had to be polished with JB paste.....

 

[fillwa]

Well i tell ya for years the only thing i use for removing oil from the bore prior to dumping in my powder is plain old RUBBING ALCOHOL. I prefer the 90% plus stuff. This has been workin for me since the 70’s.... just put some on a cleanin patch and run down the bore. Removes all oil residue and evaporates pretty darn quick. Plus its a good thing to have in your shootin bag/box in case of a cut/injury. Lots cheaper than carb cleaner, brake cleaner, or whaterever else ya’all might come up with. Try it ya just might like it.

Exactly!
Regular pharmacy rubbing alcohol works well too. It’s what I use.

 

[Hawken]

Oil and related chemicals, petroleum solvents, kerosene based retail products, all that stuff causes problems when used to excess. In the case of off topic cartridge firearms, the primers can become contaminated and fail to fire. A similar effect is observed with blackpowder firearms when oils or solvents dampen the powder charge.

It begs the question, really. If you store firearms in a stable environment, even uncoated steel will not corrode. A humid environment, and enclosed space, and in particularly wide temperature swings are a big contributor. A cold steel barrel brought into a warmer, higher humidity location will have condensation form on its surfaces.

"Rubbing alcohol" as mentioned should be a really effective degreaser and also remove corrosive salt residues. Naptha or "lighter fluid" works great at removing every trace of oil or grease and evaporates very quickly leaving no residue behind. But I still maintain any gun kept in a reasonable indoor location needs very little oil or grease in the first place. Excess does no good anyway, and just wastes money.

 

[George]

No takers on explaining why it is thought to be so important to get the bore down to bare metal before shooting, eh? Is it that no one knows? Considering all the ink spent in claiming the need for it and all the money, time and effort put into making sure it happens, I'd think some kind of reason for it would be common knowledge.

This same conversation has been repeated many, many times over the last four decades, and I've asked this same question more times than I can remember, but no reasonable answer has been offered. Maybe there isn't one.

Spence

 

[Grenadier1758]

I agree with you, @Spence10, that getting the bore down to bare metal with no lubrication is not necessary. In fact if we use an oil based lubricant, we are applying oil to the bore as we load. The reason I recommend to wipe the bore with alcohol before the first shot is to clean up an accumulation of oils that have gathered in the chambered breech of some muzzle loaders. The bore cleaning to the bare metal is not needed with a filming rust inhibitor such as Barricade and if the cleaned muzzle loaded is stored muzzle down.

The reasonable answer is to avoid getting the breech and flash channel blocked with drying oils and grease. Making sure the flash channel is clear is more important than removing a thin film of rust inhibiting lubricant.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Ok Spence10, I'll throw one out.

Apart from the obvious one of making sure the flash channel is clear, it's to remove the oil, and keeping it from sludging up on you from the BP residue, and / or slightly altering your load and patch lube when you send that first ball home. The longer the oil has been in there, the greater the gumminess of it. The small grains of powder can stick to the oil in the bore when loading and slightly alter what powder actually makes it to the bottom of the bore. If you're shooting heavier charges this isn't as big of a deal, but with light target loads the difference can be considerable. The longer the barrel, the more chance it has to happen.

I personally don't think it's THAT big of a deal though. If you coat your bore with gobs of cosmoline between shootings then yeah, it is, but the light coatings of the traditional gun oils that most people use shouldn't be a substantive issue.

The REAL issue though is to ensure bore consistency from shot to shot. That's why a lot of target shooters swab between shots.

 

[Reno]

After cleaning I always leave some oil in the bore and on the various parts. Then I check back in a day and oil and clean again. So the same thing in a week. Don’t always hit these times. Not always but pretty darn close.
it pays to take care of your equipment and to oil a bit. Black powder is fun but it can be pretty nasty stuff to clean to and the rust can creep back on you. Especially if you live in humid areas.

 

[Livbucks]

I'm not convinced. But then, I'm not convinced about a lot of the "gospel" about cleaning and shooting BP guns. Or those magic guns which have a mind of their own and will shoot patterns instead of groups until some arcane, counterintuitive combination of powder amount, brand and granulation, size ball, thickness, weave and color of patch, amount and type of lube is stumbled on.

If I had to jump through all the hoops I see described on these boards in order to get my guns to function I would take up knitting, instead.

But that's just me.

Spence

Good thing I started reading forums after I bought a flintlock and not before. Might not have "pulled the trigger".

 

[George]

Ok Spence10, I'll throw one out.

Thanks, Col Batguano. I only have one rifle with a patent breech, and I make a point of running a pipe cleaner through it at the end of every cleaning. I use paste style lubes, not oils, generally, so oil accumulating in the breech is a non-problem. I have to say, anyone using so much oil that puddles collect in the breech doesn't need brake pad cleaner, he needs to stop making puddles.
Powder clinging to oil on the bore seems a pretty unlikely reason to need brake pad cleaner, to me. Surely any wads or patch used in the load would scrape the bore clean of any stuck grains.
Part of my confusion about the need to start every shoot with bare metal, not a trace of oil, is that for the majority of us shooting patched round ball the last thing we do in the loading sequence is run a greasy patch down the bore, wiping the grease on it all the way down. How does that work? Is the next fad cleaning thing going to be to flush the bore with brake pad cleaner, acetone, benzene or some such extreme solvent after the ball is rammed home? I for one won't be surprised to hear that recommenced. I know there are already some guys who run a jag and patch down after loading to wipe away that ultra-thin film of lube in case it does....what, exactly?

It seems to me that a lot of shooters make this a much too complicated game. You shouldn't have to have a degree in chemistry to shoot a ML, or a hazard suit with gloves and goggles to load your gun. It's really much, much more simple than a lot of guys would have you believe. An example... in 2012 I killed the one and only buck I have shot with my .40 caliber flintlock. That gun gets very little use, these days. I make no special effort at cleaning and lubing it when I put it away, and it goes for years without being shot. I took it off the wall, loaded it in the usual way with no special attention to the bore. I shot this buck....

....and in the report I posted to the forum I said, "Instant ignition, and I don't think I've shot that rifle for five years." That was true, I had not shot it for that long, I didn't feel the need to shoot it before the hunt to prove it would fire, I knew it would.

As Jaron Lanier said, "The arts and humanities (and lets not forget the religions!) have been perpetually faced with the challenge of making simple things complicated." I'm sure he would have included muzzleloader shooting in that if he had known it was a thing.

Sorry to go on and on. Finis.

Spence

 

[Newtire]

Yeah I hear you. I'm shooting well with what I have now but always am up for testing new ideas and products to see if what is said is true. Heck I'm changing my own thinking with new and better information so why not give other's ideas a go as well. Some of it is apple sauce but ever once in a while there's a gold nugget to be picked up so it doens't hurt to listen and give the notion a go for your self.

Casting during a full moon always seems to bring out the accuracy of the lead balls.