Acceptable hunting accuracy ?

[French Colonial]

i understand what you are saying, and a deers kill zone. i am just saying that 5 inches off in any direction [ from center of your plate] is not o.k. with me.not when shooting at game. why say a shotgun pattern on a plate is good enough? just my opinion ,feel free to give up on me anytime you like.

WHERE IS THE PLATE!!!!!

 

[Brokennock]

No it doesn't, the kill zone on a deer is about the size of a paper plate and if you can hit that every time offhand at your chosen distance you will not have any lost deer.

Yeah, 'cause nothing ever goes wrong in the woods, when shooting at a live animal.

 

[longcruise]

i understand what you are saying, and a deers kill zone. i am just saying that 5 inches off in any direction [ from center of your plate] is not o.k. with me.not when shooting at game. why say a shotgun pattern on a plate is good enough? just my opinion ,feel free to give up on me anytime you like.

With that, I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between what the two of you are saying.

He specifically said if not all on the plate it's too far. Actual capability at any distance is to be ascertained by the individual shooter.

 

[French Colonial]

Yeah, 'cause nothing ever goes wrong in the woods, when shooting at a live animal.

Very true, all we can do is practice practice practice until if there is a screw up, and there will at be one at some time, we know we did every thing we could to prepare as best we could.

 

[Daveboone]

Back in my early hunting days, if you could keep all your shots on a paper plate at 50 yards using the old foster style deer slugs fired from the smooth bore shotgun barrel, that was considered good enough for deer and my buddies and I were very successful.

That was what we were brought up with, when almost all our hunting was with shotguns and pumpkin ball slugs. It seemd every deer knocked right over...almost. Granted, the big equilizer was the amazing mass and striking power of those heavy slugs at relatively close range,which made hits much more forgiving. My round ball shooting with .54 cal on deer shows relatively small amount of localized trauma, requiring much more exact placement.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

You can cover the kill zone on deer with a 9 inch plate. 1.5 spread at 50 yards will get it done.

a 9in circle leaves a lot of room for error, and wounded deer. One slight step, turn etc and you have a wound deer using a 9in circle. IMHO

 

[chorizo]

A bullet pattern is a cone...the further out you go the wider the cone and vice versa.

We aren't talking about shooter error here, we are talking the "mechanics" of the gun. 1.5" @ 50 yards equals 3" @ 100 yards. If the kill zone is 6" then a sighted in rifle at 100 yards is going to hit in the kill zone.

That said, the biggest factor in accuracy is the "trigger actuator". Some people can't hit their butt when using both hands, let alone a paper plate at 100 yards, so the most accurate gun in the world won't help.

It all comes down to knowing your guns limitations and your limitations. A 2" group at 50 yards is more than adequate for hunting at 100 yards IF YOU CAN DO YOUR PART AND YOUR GUN IS SIGHTED IN AT 100 YARDS.

If it is sighted in at 50 yards, you will be low at 100 yards and some shots will be out of the kill zone given your gun will have 4" spread at 100 yards and the associated drop.

These are my gun parameters from the bench: 2" group or less at 50 yards with a "point blank range" of 100 yards (which equates to 3" high at 50 yards, zero at 100 yards) and 120 yards max. 3" group at 50 yards a point blank range of 75 yards (1.5' high in at 50 yards and zero at 75 yards) and a max distance of 100 yards. 4" group at 50 yards, a point blank range of 50 yards (zero at 50 yards) with a max of 75 yards.

There is wisdom in the paper plate system, if and only if, you are using it to determine your max distance to shoot using the shooting position you would use in the field. If you can put all of your shots in the 6" plate you are good AT THAT RANGE. Keep moving it out until you can't....I am talking about NO BENCH REST shooting, rather standing or sitting, what you would use in the field. When you can't keep them in the plate, then that is your max range.

So it all depends on the person shooting, the "point blank range" you are using and the accuracy of your gun/load.

Point Blank Range: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-blank_range

 

[Snake Pleskin]

A bullet pattern is a cone...the further out you go the wider the cone and vice versa.

We aren't talking about shooter error here, we are talking the "mechanics" of the gun. 1.5" @ 50 yards equals 3" @ 100 yards. If the kill zone is 6" then a sighted in rifle at 100 yards is going to hit in the kill zone.

That said, the biggest factor in accuracy is the "trigger actuator". Some people can't hit their butt with both hands, let alone a paper plate at 100 yards, so the most accurate gun in the world won't help.

It all comes down to knowing your guns limitations and your limitations. A 2" group at 50 yards is more than adequate for hunting at 100 yards IF YOU CAN DO YOUR PART AND YOUR GUN IS SIGHTED IN AT 100 YARDS.

If it is sighted in at 50 yards, you will be low at 100 yards and some shots will be out of the kill zone given your gun will have 4" spread at 100 yards and the associated drop.

So it all depends on the person shooting, the "point blank range" you are using and the accuracy of your load.

Me: 2" group or less, sight in at 50 yards with a "point blank range" of 100 yards and I am good to 120 yards if I do my part.

There is wisdom in the paper plate system, if and only if, you are using it to determine your max distance to shoot using the shooting position you would use in the field. If you can put all of your shots in the 6" plate you are good AT THAT RANGE. Keep moving it out until you can't....I am talking about NO BENCH REST shooting, rather standing or sitting, what you would use in the field. When you can't keep them in the plate, then that is your max range.

Point Blank Range:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point-blank_range

I am in the 60- 50 yds class most of the time due to eye sight and primitive sights on ML's. I agree that shooting from the bench does not tell you what you can do in the field! That is a mistake many make and make it repeatedly! You must shoot from improvised "field" positions to know what you are really capable of. IMHO

 

[chorizo]

I am in the 60- 50 yds class most of the time due to eye sight and primitive sights on ML's. I agree that shooting from the bench does not tell you what you can do in the field! That is a mistake many make and make it repeatedly! You must shoot from improvised "field" positions to know what you are really capable of. IMHO

My distance varies, depending upon the situation. If I am seated, have ranged my distances (basically a known distance course) and I am shooting my most accurate gun and the target is not moving...120 yards (I have good firesights on my hunting guns). Standing and still target 100 yards, moving 75 yards.

That is why the paper plate system, if used correctly is a good indicator of you and your guns ability to cleanly kill your game.

 

[Brokennock]

There is wisdom in the paper plate system, if and only if, you are using it to determine your max distance to shoot using the shooting position you would use in the field. If you can put all of your shots in the 6" plate you are good AT THAT RANGE.

That is why the paper plate system, if used correctly is a good indicator of you and your guns ability to cleanly kill your game.

The paper plate system is not a good indicator of ability to kill game ar a given distance.

If that paper plate is the best someone can do, on the static and unemotional environment of a shooting range, it is no indicator of what they are capable of under adverse and emotional conditions.
The hunter's heart date is up, position may not be ideal, animal might be higher or lower than the target on the range, animal might be partly obscured, the vitals of the animal are not round with clearly defined edges. Maybe lighting/visibility is poor. What if the animal moves slightly at the moment of the shot?
This is all very similar to the discussions I have to have with new practical pistol shooting students. The best one can do on the range is not what one can expect to be capable of in the real world or even a practical pistol match. Of one's best group is minute of Down Zero or A-Zone, one is in for a rude awakening in a match or real situation.

Use your paper plate. But cut the group size to half of it. Of planning for an animal with and 8" vital zone,,, strive for 4" groups or less.

The most accurate gun in the world may not make a poor shooter the best shooter,,, but,,,, it is a better combination than a poor shooter with an inaccurate gun/load. Food for thought?

 

[chorizo]

The paper plate system is not a good indicator of ability to kill game ar a given distance.

If that paper plate is the best someone can do, on the static and unemotional environment of a shooting range, it is no indicator of what they are capable of under adverse and emotional conditions.
The hunter's heart date is up, position may not be ideal, animal might be higher or lower than the target on the range, animal might be partly obscured, the vitals of the animal are not round with clearly defined edges. Maybe lighting/visibility is poor. What if the animal moves slightly at the moment of the shot?
This is all very similar to the discussions I have to have with new practical pistol shooting students. The best one can do on the range is not what one can expect to be capable of in the real world or even a practical pistol match. Of one's best group is minute of Down Zero or A-Zone, one is in for a rude awakening in a match or real situation.

Use your paper plate. But cut the group size to half of it. Of planning for an animal with and 8" vital zone,,, strive for 4" groups or less.

The most accurate gun in the world may not make a poor shooter the best shooter,,, but,,,, it is a better combination than a poor shooter with an inaccurate gun/load. Food for thought?

That all depends upon how excitable you are, now doesn't it. For me, it is a great indicator. Obviously, your mileage varies.

 

[Brokennock]

That all depends upon how excitable you are, now doesn't it. For me, it is a great indicator. Obviously, your mileage varies.

And, I'm betting you are capable of better than that paper plate "standard."
At least I hope so.

That all depends upon how excitable you are, now doesn't it.

Not completely. Again, what if the animal moves? Wind suddenly gusts? Wouldn't one want a margin of error?

 

[Snake Pleskin]

My distance varies, depending upon the situation. If I am seated, have ranged my distances (basically a known distance course) and I am shooting my most accurate gun and the target is not moving...120 yards (I have good firesights on my hunting guns). Standing and still target 100 yards, moving 75 yards.

That is why the paper plate system, if used correctly is a good indicator of you and your guns ability to cleanly kill your game.

I never shoot and moving game. Too many things can go wrong to end up wounding an animal. That is not acceptable to me. I am not "starving" etc., so there is no "good" reason for me to ever risk a shot at "moving/running" game. IMHO

 

[Snake Pleskin]

And, I'm betting you are capable of better than that paper plate "standard."
At least I hope so.


Not completely. Again, what if the animal moves? Wind suddenly gusts? Wouldn't one want a margin of error?

My grandfather was a PH who hunted on three Continents and took just about every known animal on the planet, worth taking. He told me that any one who thinks they know what an animal is going to do, when looking through the sights is "full of it"! He said in his many years of hunting, he has seen animals do all of these thing as the trigger is pulled; take a step, drop their head, do the wet dog shake, turn or quarter away, raise their head to bellow etc., it can result in a "poor" hit. Period.

 

[chorizo]

Everybody has their limitations and it is good that you know them. Practice at all things makes whatever you do more acceptable.

I know my limitations and stay within them....but then again I practice a lot in all conditions and environs. It is a perishable skill, so if you don't do it regularly, your ability degrades...use it or lose it.

If you never shoot at moving game, you would never get a shot at a game drive in Europe.

Again, stay within your limitations, I do and obviously my limitations are not the same as yours.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

Everybody has their limitations and it is good that you know them. Practice at all things makes whatever you do more acceptable.

I know my limitations and stay within them....but then again I practice a lot in all conditions and environs. It is a perishable skill, so if you don't do it regularly, your ability degrades...use it or lose it.

It is not always about you . Like I said, animals do strange things.

 

[French Colonial]

Just as there are a lot of internet experts on most subjects there are a lot of internet sharpshooters as well.

Everyone thinks they are Matthew Quigley

 

[chorizo]

Just as there are a lot of internet experts on most subjects there are a lot of internet sharpshooters as well.

Everyone thinks they are Matthew Quigley

Yep. Also lots of people who assume lots of things too!

 

[rusticbob]

Here is what I was always taught, if you can keep all your offhand shots on a paper plate, then you are good for hunting deer at that distance, if not practice more.

This was exactly how I was taught, and I still consider it good offhand shooting advise

 

[chorizo]

French Colonial said:
Here is what I was always taught, if you can keep all your offhand shots on a paper plate, then you are good for hunting deer at that distance, if not practice more.

Sound advice.