Well I’ve looked at a lot of photos, and trophies on the wall. I don’t, but I’ve no disrespect for those that do, if I have any thing to say it’s generally words to the effect of ‘good shot’
Acceptable hunting accuracy ?
- Thread starter kyron4
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
This right here!
I've read ALL posts in this thread. Some old wives tails, some truth. I've had the opportunity to help track, field dress, and help butcher an incredible number of whitetail deer in last 20 years. We kill on average 20 deer a year at the lodge. That's 400 deer kills I've been witness to. I've accounted for 80 plus off this property myself. I've killed roughly 125 whitetail in 3 states in the USA and Canada. We do an 'autopsy' with every kill to see the method of actual kill.
The 400ish deer killed at the lodge have been killed with archery, modern shotgun using slugs, modern muzzleloaders and primitive muzzleloaders.
We have a qualification test at the lodge. You either pass it and hunt or fail and don't hunt that year with that type of weapon. NO exceptions. The test is 4 out of 5 shots at 20 yards for archery and 4 out of 5 shots for gun at 50 yards. The target size is 8 inches. Any shot even cutting the 8" circle counts. We PRIDE ourselves on NOT wounding and not recovering deer. It is expected that when you shoot, you only shoot 1 shot and that shot counts and the deer is recovered without undue drama. Period. End. Of. Story.
The 'pie plate theory' works for us. I will NOT shoot beyond 100 yards with gun (muzzleloader only for me anymore). Most of my muzzleloader shots are between 20 yards and 60 yards. We take the animal's life and death seriously. The 'pie plate theory' has not been an impediment.
One of my favorite muzzleloaders will not group less than 6" with 5 shots at 100 yards from a bench consistently. 6" is basically the average worst case scenario. Funny thing is this muzzleloader has been the one I've killed the most deer with. Including several 80 to 100ish yard shots. What is important to me is that the center of the 6" grouping is consistently in the same place EVERY time on paper targets at 100 yards. The typical 5 shot group at 50 yards is 2.5" to 3". This has never been an issue for me from point blank to 100 yards.
A rifle that shoots MOA is nice but needed for deer hunting IF the hunter has ethics and morals.
The 400ish deer killed at the lodge have been killed with archery, modern shotgun using slugs, modern muzzleloaders and primitive muzzleloaders.
We have a qualification test at the lodge. You either pass it and hunt or fail and don't hunt that year with that type of weapon. NO exceptions. The test is 4 out of 5 shots at 20 yards for archery and 4 out of 5 shots for gun at 50 yards. The target size is 8 inches. Any shot even cutting the 8" circle counts. We PRIDE ourselves on NOT wounding and not recovering deer. It is expected that when you shoot, you only shoot 1 shot and that shot counts and the deer is recovered without undue drama. Period. End. Of. Story.
The 'pie plate theory' works for us. I will NOT shoot beyond 100 yards with gun (muzzleloader only for me anymore). Most of my muzzleloader shots are between 20 yards and 60 yards. We take the animal's life and death seriously. The 'pie plate theory' has not been an impediment.
One of my favorite muzzleloaders will not group less than 6" with 5 shots at 100 yards from a bench consistently. 6" is basically the average worst case scenario. Funny thing is this muzzleloader has been the one I've killed the most deer with. Including several 80 to 100ish yard shots. What is important to me is that the center of the 6" grouping is consistently in the same place EVERY time on paper targets at 100 yards. The typical 5 shot group at 50 yards is 2.5" to 3". This has never been an issue for me from point blank to 100 yards.
A rifle that shoots MOA is nice but needed for deer hunting IF the hunter has ethics and morals.
No disrespect, but 4 out of 5 hits on an 8" plate at 50 yards with modern shotgun , modern muzzleloaders and primitive muzzleloaders seems a bit generous . Is this from a supported field position or a bench ?
I'd say your lodge has generous standards IMO. I certainly wouldn't suggest changing your rules as it works for you. But if my rifle couldn't put all 5 shots inside 6 in or smaller at 50 yds it ain't gong out in the field. Target shoots are definitive. Deer accuracy is subjective.
Sitting at a wood shooting bench with elbows supported but no sand bags or other shooting supports. Not that different in concept of shooting from a treestand.
You might be surprised at how many hunters CANNOT put 4 out of 5 arrows into an 8" circle at 20 yards and 4 out of 5 slugs, bullets, or PRB's into an 8" circle at 50 yards. It's really shocking.
Some years ago I was at the range and a couple of guys showed up to sight in rifles for deer season
It was just a few weeks to opening day.
Fist they didn’t know ml ‘could shoot that far’, I was shooting smooth at fifty yards.
I get sub three inch groups.
They shot about twenty rounds apiece. Not one in the black, some not on the paper. After polite praise of my ‘old gun’ they announced that their shooting was ‘good ‘nough for deer
My tongue is still sore from the biting.
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Messages
- 797
- Reaction score
- 1,987
Reminds me of a friend that lived in Montana that hunted elk with a 54 flintlock. He was telling me about bugling elk. I asked what the closest he had one come in. He said, “I lost my nerve at about 5 yards…”
For anyone that might know him or care, that was Steve Garby.
I was watching guys sight in at a camp one time and one guy was having trouble keeping a 4 in group at 40 yards. This was from an unmentionable known to be very accurate and wearing 4X glass. While I know most deer shots around there are in the 40 yd or less range, I was glad that he was the worst shot in camp anyway.
aussie pete
40 Cal
Yep. Get in close and use a rest. I have never shot an animal off hand with a muzzle loader. Get in close, be confident through steadiness, or be content to watch and let the beauty go on by. The observation can be the best part of a hunt; you don't have to come home with meat to feel successful. To keep in line with the thread, I like to have my round ball printing within two to three inches at 50 metres. Almost all my successes have been much closer. Here's a beauty I was prepared to let on by. I was in a bird hide (photography) on the opposite bank of this earth dam; he was just over 70 metres out, always at the wrong angle, never turning broadside. My two-to-three-inch grouping would do no good here. I like to think he's still out there adding depth to the generations.
Regards, Pete
The closest I have ever come to shooting a deer off hand was taking a knee, supporting my elbow, that wasn't enough so I sat my butt on my other ankle, that was the ticket, it ran about thirty yards. I shoot off hand a lot at the range, never in the field.
Robby
Robby
I'll keep this brief, and I forgot my phone so no pictures unfortunately.
Went for a hunt last night, had a blown stalk but on the way back to my vehicle found a young fallow doe. Got in to around 75 yards which I'm confident shooting. She was basically broadside but looking over her offside shoulder, her head lining up with her chest.
I sat on my butt, locked my elbows in, set the trigger on my 54 flint GRRW and boom! She went down like a sack of spuds. Got up to her and although I felt steady and the gun hadn't drifted an inch left or right I hadn't touched her chest. Shot her clean through the brain. Now, my gun is zeroed for 110 yards so it was still shooting high but not that far. I was calm and cool, no adrenaline throwing me off.
Sometimes a shot you've made 1000 times can still go awry, I put this down to movement on a not fully stable rest. I'm just thankful I killed her cleanly.
I'll be out again this weekend (will remember to take pics if successful) and hopefully shooting as I know the gun and myself can do.
P.s. the old girl still got a kiss on the stock for putting meat in the freezer!
Went for a hunt last night, had a blown stalk but on the way back to my vehicle found a young fallow doe. Got in to around 75 yards which I'm confident shooting. She was basically broadside but looking over her offside shoulder, her head lining up with her chest.
I sat on my butt, locked my elbows in, set the trigger on my 54 flint GRRW and boom! She went down like a sack of spuds. Got up to her and although I felt steady and the gun hadn't drifted an inch left or right I hadn't touched her chest. Shot her clean through the brain. Now, my gun is zeroed for 110 yards so it was still shooting high but not that far. I was calm and cool, no adrenaline throwing me off.
Sometimes a shot you've made 1000 times can still go awry, I put this down to movement on a not fully stable rest. I'm just thankful I killed her cleanly.
I'll be out again this weekend (will remember to take pics if successful) and hopefully shooting as I know the gun and myself can do.
P.s. the old girl still got a kiss on the stock for putting meat in the freezer!
The hardest part is not taking the shot.
It’s just a little far, it’s not the best angle, there is a little brush, it’s in the shadows I don’t have a real good picture, suns down, do I have time to rest, let it die and find him is he runs?, last day it’s now or never.
Stop right there!!!! If it ain’t it good shot hands off the wrist finger off the trigger.
Never let buck fever ruin a hunt.
It’s just a little far, it’s not the best angle, there is a little brush, it’s in the shadows I don’t have a real good picture, suns down, do I have time to rest, let it die and find him is he runs?, last day it’s now or never.
Stop right there!!!! If it ain’t it good shot hands off the wrist finger off the trigger.
Never let buck fever ruin a hunt.
One of my training routines every year is to run around a little, do some jumping jacks, knock out 10-20 push ups and then try to shoot within 5 seconds. Repeat 5 times. The distance where I fail to get all 5 in the kill zone is beyond my effective range. The exercise strains the muscles a little and gets my heart pumping to simulate excitement. I'm pretty fit so the exercise itself is not challenging in the least. But it's MUCH harder to pull off a good shot with the blood pumping like that. Harder still do do it 5 times in a row.
When we're excited, we almost always default to our lowest level of training and our bare minimum of ethical standards. Personally, I take a percussion gun for deer & bear because I'm just not good enough with the flintlock yet.
Running shots, off-hand vs supported, etc. -- just know your limits & stay within them. Practice enough to know where & under what conditions you no longer fail. Push that boundary during practice. Stay well within it in the field.
When we're excited, we almost always default to our lowest level of training and our bare minimum of ethical standards. Personally, I take a percussion gun for deer & bear because I'm just not good enough with the flintlock yet.
Running shots, off-hand vs supported, etc. -- just know your limits & stay within them. Practice enough to know where & under what conditions you no longer fail. Push that boundary during practice. Stay well within it in the field.
Agreed. I've had shots go way off that I'm sure I made cleanly. Weird stuff happens. Best to just plan for a bad day & appreciate the good ones than build plans for a good day and then be unprepared for the bad, right?
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Messages
- 797
- Reaction score
- 1,987
This has been an interesting thread with a lot of responses that reflect different perspectives. I would say hunting accuracy has two components - the mechanical accuracy of the firearm and the ability to aim accurately under the conditions at the time. We all need to know what accuracy our rifles are capable of delivering at different ranges when fired from a stable position. We also need to know how well we can shoot in different conditions. Are we shooting squirrels, coyotes, deer, or elk? What's the range? What kind of rest do we have and how excited are we?
I tend to judge things this way - when I pull the trigger I want to be shocked and amazed if I miss. What I mean is I want to have a high probablity of a clean shot under whatever the conditions are. That means maybe a 100 yard shot at a deer is ok in one instance, but a 50 yard shot needs to be passed up in another scenario. I make these judgements based on experience practicing with my rifle at the range and in the field. I've sent lots of bullets at small rocks, prickly pear apples, soda cans and milk jugs. I have a good feel for when I can make the shot and when I need to let it go.
In the end it's a bit hard for me to quantify the OP's original question. I can only say when the smoke clears I fully expect that I hit my mark. Do I always? Well - no - but I don't think anyone here can honestly say they have never missed. What did Fred Bear say? "Be sure of your shot. Nothing is more expensive than regret."
I tend to judge things this way - when I pull the trigger I want to be shocked and amazed if I miss. What I mean is I want to have a high probablity of a clean shot under whatever the conditions are. That means maybe a 100 yard shot at a deer is ok in one instance, but a 50 yard shot needs to be passed up in another scenario. I make these judgements based on experience practicing with my rifle at the range and in the field. I've sent lots of bullets at small rocks, prickly pear apples, soda cans and milk jugs. I have a good feel for when I can make the shot and when I need to let it go.
In the end it's a bit hard for me to quantify the OP's original question. I can only say when the smoke clears I fully expect that I hit my mark. Do I always? Well - no - but I don't think anyone here can honestly say they have never missed. What did Fred Bear say? "Be sure of your shot. Nothing is more expensive than regret."
Looking at NorthFork's posting. The Alaska Muzzleloading test is 4 out of 5 shots hitting an 8" target at 50 yards. When I did the test you could not shoot off the bench, not prone, nor use any support aids. I think now they allow shooting sticks.
