Accuracy starts on 2nd shot?

[garra]

This has happened on two different monthly shoots. On our shoot in July I missed the target for the tie breaker completely on the first shot, went to the next station for cutting the card and did it. Same sequence happened again this month, I blew the tie breaker missing paper entirely and again on the 2nd shot fired cut a card in half. Both times before I shot I had cleaned the barrel using rubbing alcohol to remove oil residue and fired 2 caps prior to loading the rifle for the first target.
As I was mulling over what was going on I saw one of the long time shooters fire his first charge not at the target, when I asked he said he was fouling the barrel before firing at the first target.
What's up with that, can too clean of a barrel affect accuracy on the first shot?

 

[Artificer]

Yes, over the years I have seen quite a few people fire a fouling shot before beginning to shoot on their targets, this in both ML and modern competition. Not every rifle and load prefers it, but some do.

What kind of preservative oil are you using in the bore, that you are cleaning with the first alcohol patch?

Gus

 

[Critter Getter]

Yes, a fowling shot may be necessary with some rifles. I have a deadly accurate Hatfield that I have used quite successfully in competitions but the first shot out of a clean barrel always hits 3" left. After that it's golden! Greg

 

[Loyalist Dave]

While I have heard of such, I wonder if it isn't a patch and ball problem, that self-corrects because of the residue, when folks should go back to the range and work on getting the first shot to hit?

I would doubt that such was the practice of those who used their muzzleloaders for decades, and had to keep them loaded for self-defense as well as for putting meat on the table or for hides. You'd either miss the first shot, OR have to travel perhaps for days, with fouling in the barrel corroding the barrel all the while, before getting a shot at that deer.

On the other hand it occurs to me that one might have acceptable "hunting" accuracy, but would need that fouling shot for the shooting competition if one was to cut a card or part a string holding a weight?

:idunno: Beats me.

I like the first shot to go where I aim it, OR if I miss to know that it was a problem with the nut behind the sights, and not the barrel nor the load.

:wink:

LD

 

[coloradoclyde]

It's all in your head...

 

[Juice Jaws]

I think its just the name of the game. Many, many times I have seen people (me also) miss the tie breaker then do great the rest of the trail. And I have seen 10X on the tie breaker and then miss most shots on the trail. Most people worry about lube, patch thickness, powder charge, etc, and forget the main thing, shooting is a head game, a person goes out by themselves and shoots fine, have your buddy stand by you and you cant hit the side of the barn.

 

[BrownBear]

I have a different take on it- a non-range, non-competition view.

I'm a hunter and field shooter. I can go all day waiting for my shot, and I don't want a fouled bore sitting and collecting rust on long days. My first shot is often my one and only shot, so it has to be right on the money. So when sighting in a rifle I shoot "one shot groups," cleaning the bore completely between shots. If there's a change in POI for second shots I certainly need to know that, but I'd rather compensate my hold for the second shot than the first.

Truth be known, I can't abide a rifle or load that produces such a phenom. I'd get rid of a rifle that behaved that way if I couldn't sort it out with load testing and modification. So far I haven't had to get rid of a single rifle, as I've always found a load combo that beat it without swabbing between shots.

Especially with small game shooting and lots of shots, I don't want to do all that swabbing. I swab if and when loading becomes difficult, but even there I've found loads that let me go several shots between swabbing, even in smaller calibers including my 30 cal.

No, those loads and rifles probably don't deliver the smallest possible groups when I find the combos that work. But field utility is more important to me than a half inch smaller group at 50 yards or even 25 yards.

 

[bob308]

at a match I load and fire the first shot into the backstop. burns out any oil or anything else in the barrel.

 

[necchi]

As already mentioned by a few folks,
Hunting and/or Field accuracy is a little different then competition accuracy.
Cutting a string, slicing a card or the 10-ring X @ 20yrds is different then a 10" gong at 100.
Taking a "fouling shot" as competition begins is common practice at shooting events and usually only needs to be mentioned to a Range Officer or fellow shooters to be accepted as a non-scoring shot.

Fouling shots set up a consistent bore condition for all the following shots.
It's as simple as that :wink:

 

[Vaino]

My .45 flint LR has head hit 100s of squirrels since 1977 and have never fouled a bore prior to hunting and have head hit many squirrels w/ the first shot out of a clean bbl. The Douglas bbl from day one has shot to point of aim irregardless if it's the first, 3rd or 7th shot. Sometimes a wire brush is used when the humidity is low and the previous PRB was a little hard to seat, but usually in a day of squirrel hunting, the gun is only cleaned when done hunting.......Fred

 

[necchi]

Sure,
How many "string widths" or playing card thicknesses is a squirrel head?
:v

 

[garra]

the rifle has a Green River barrel in 50 cal. I am using my own mixture of moose milk. ( I can shoot the entire course of 22 shots where fouling isn't an issue with this lube) Shooting a .490 ball over a .015" patch. After the rifle is cleaned use some WD40 to oil the barrel before it goes in safe. I have noticed discoloration on alcohol patch, sort of brownish when I clean prior to shooting. One thing that was also consistent was I was loading 55gns of 3f powder.

 

[BrownBear]

Are you thoroughly cleaning the bore when you retrieve it from storage?

 

[hanshi]

I agree. If a rifle won't put the first shot from a clean barrel into the resulting group, I have no use for it. Carrying a fouled rifle around the woods doesn't appeal to me. If I don't get a shot I leave it loaded until next time; but without a fouled bore.

 

[azmntman]

I fire my rifle in the dark of early AM and load up. Not to foul the bore but to avoid any hangfire or FF. My last time was my last time. Rather clean a rifle every day after the hunt than see a nice fat cow and "pop a cap on her arse" :shake:

 

[Billnpatti]

If you have had a chance to read Dutch Schoultz' muzzleloading accuracy system, you will see that a very important thing to achieving maximum accuracy is having your bore the same for each shot. That is why many folks will fire a fouling shot before starting the match. They usually then wipe the bore and then reload for the match. Every shot after that, they will wipe the bore exactly the same way so that the bore remains the same for each shot. A clean bore will usually result in a POI that will differ from all subsequent shots. If the bore is allowed to become too fouled, it, too will start to wander from the original POI. The moral here, according to Dutch, is to not fire the first shot that counts from a clean bore. Foul your bore and wipe it before shooting any shots that will count. Then wipe your bore between each shot using exactly the same technique for each wiping.

Let me highly recommend Dutch Schoultz' accuracy system to you if you do not yet have a copy.
http://blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

 

[Vaino]

Never measured and made the comparison.....all I'm saying is that it does the job on squirrels for me.....by hitting a fairly small target, some at 30 yds. Besides, I don't see the purpose of shooting at playing cards although some not so savvy onlookers might be impressed having a Daniel Boone in their midst......Fred

 

[mooman76]

This is a common thing even in center fire guns. Usually it is les noticeable but as we all know, every gun is different.

 

[brianpa40]

Do you think that a thicker patch would help with the first shot accuracy thing or a combination of patch thickness and powder charge.
Thanks

 

[BrownBear]

Do you think that a thicker patch would help with the first shot accuracy thing or a combination of patch thickness and powder charge.
Thanks

In my experience, add lube to those two possibilities.

I'm fond of grease type lubes for hunting consistency and number of shots before loading gets stiff and I have to swab. When you think about it, seating the first ball gives you a thin film of grease in the bore. So does the second. I'm speculating here, but it seems to me that's a form of "consistency" that might be reminiscent of shooting each shot from a fouled bore. Dunno. I only have deep experience with my own methods, and it's not fair to speculate too far afield beyond that.