Accuracy

[JDBraddy]

Long time shooter/ reloader, new to muzzleloading. Bought a used CVA Stalker Carbine .50 cal

to shoot in local club matches. Match requires use of patched balls, no conical bullets. 50-100yd. Standing or off cross sticks. No optics. No hunting, just accuracy/ precision. Looking for loading/cleaning/ accuracy advice.

 

[kyron4]

Are you new to BP shooting or have you shot BP rifles before ?

What is the twist rate on your rifle ? 1:66 or 1:48 is needed for round balls.

 

[JDBraddy]

Are you new to BP shooting or have you shot BP rifles before ?

What is the twist rate on your rifle ? 1:66 or 1:48 is needed for round balls.

Completely new to BP, have not fired it yet, because it was sold to me with a dry-ball in the bore, and had to leave it with a gunsmith for removal. (Long story) not sure of twist rate, but think I saw 1:32 in a review online.

 

[kyron4]

Completely new to BP, have not fired it yet, because it was sold to me with a dry-ball in the bore, and had to leave it with a gunsmith for removal. (Long story) not sure of twist rate, but think I saw 1:32 in a review online.

1:32 or 1:28 twist are used for conicals and modern sabot loads. You can shoot round balls but your accuracy will greatly suffer. 1:66 or 1:70 are best for round balls and 1:48 will shoot both round balls and conicals well.

Being new to BP I would recommend you go shooting with someone who has experience shooting BP muzzleloaders. While fairly simple there is a lot of little things to keep in mind. There are a lot of well made videos on youtube to get you started that are very helpful. Several books for beginners are also available.

Some starters would be use only real black powder FFG or FFFG will both work with Swiss being the best for accuracy in most cases, though Goex and Shuetzen are great too. Pyrodex or Triple 7 are substitutes and will also work , but NEVER use smokeless powder , ever.

Both will rust your bore in hours to days if not properly cleaned. Cleaning with a bucket of warm water and drying followed by a light coat of oil or lube is as simple as it gets.

I could go on and on, but if you have a specific question about something you'll get an answer here, just try to avoid vague or brood topics.

Hope this helped.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@JDBraddy, you can get fair accuracy but not excellent accuracy with light loads using patched round ball in a rifle with the 1 in 32 twist. Always use a volumetric powder measure as the substitute powders are designed to perform pretty close to real black powder using equal volumes. The substitute powders are less dense than real black powder so weighing the substitute powders on a scale can result in overloading the rifle. If at all possible, measure the bore to know the land-to-land diameter and the groove-to-groove diameters. As to a starting load for load development, I would recommend 30 grains (by volume measure) of 3Fg or pistol sized grains (Pyrodex PS), caps should be #11 magnum for the substitute powders. The ball should be 0.010" less in diameter, probably 0.490" wrapped in 0.015" pillow ticking lubricated with a mix of 50% dish soap and water. Shoot 5 shot groups to observe accuracy. Increase the load by 5 grains to see the effect on accuracy. Adjust sights after you determine the best groups.

Welcome to traditional muzzleloading. Prepare for a fascinating journey.

 

[oldwood]

Welcome to the Forum from Pa..

 

[William Sublette]

Long time shooter/ reloader, new to muzzleloading. Bought a used CVA Stalker Carbine .50 calView attachment 258432 to shoot in local club matches. Match requires use of patched balls, no conical bullets. 50-100yd. Standing or off cross sticks. No optics. No hunting, just accuracy/ precision. Looking for loading/cleaning/ accuracy advice.

Sell that rifle

Get you a vintage Lyman Great Plains Rifle.

Develop a simple repeatable loading routine, and shooting form.


Collect shooting trophies.

 

[JDBraddy]

Wow! Lots of good info to explore already. First, not the best tool for the purpose, but should be ok to learn with initially.

Next, cleaning with a bucket of water? What's the procedure here? What other supplies do I need?

Lubing patches with dish soap and water solution? Will the water affect the powder charge?

Can't measure lands and grooves yet because the gunsmith still has it, but I picked up some Remington #11 caps, .495 balls, and a pound of Pyrodex RS just because I couldn't find any real BP locally.

So, the Fg indicates grain size, and the more F's the smaller grains? Measuring by volume, I have a Neilson benchrest powder measure, will that work?

 

[Grenadier1758]

@JDBraddy, is your Neilson measure calibrated for black powder? Just go ahead and buy a volumetric powder measure when you pick up your rifle from your gunsmith.

The 0.495 balls will work, but with 0.015" patching will be difficult to load. Yes, more "F's" mean smaller grain size. Did you get some patches? I prefer unlubricated patches. Pre-packaged lubricated patches are often old, and the patch will not hold together when shot. You will need a short starter to get that ball with a lubricated patch started. A working rod in steel or brass will prove beneficial for loading and cleaning as most ramrods supplied with a rifle are inadequate for loading a tightly patched ball. Get the appropriate cleaning jag. T-shirt material will work for cleaning patches.

Can the barrel be easily removed from the stock? It seems to be removable. Ask your gunsmith. If the barrel is removable the the breech can be placed in a bucket of water with a squirt of liquid dish soap for cleaning. Dry the bore, apply some rust inhibiting lubricant (Barricade from your gunsmith) and store muzzle down to allow excess liquid drain from the breech.

 

[VA Hawken]

Welcome to the forum from Winchester. VA!

Would highly recommend this book: Black Powder Rifle Accuracy System by Dutch Schoultz

https://www.ebay.com/itm/155742696421?

 

[Iceman]

Wow! Lots of good info to explore already. First, not the best tool for the purpose, but should be ok to learn with initially.

Should be fine to learn with. Just go to the matches and shoot it. If you like it and wish to continue with black powder shooting then you could upgrade. There will be friendly people there that will let you shoot their guns and you can see what they are using for their shooting supplies. A lot of times people will have guns and or other supplies for sale at these shoots. They can probably tell you the best people to talk to about buying and selling if you did want to upgrade.

The reply’s so far are spot on. Just a couple comments in the quote box.

Next, cleaning with a bucket of water? What's the procedure here? What other supplies do I need? Answered above.

Lubing patches with dish soap and water solution? Works great. Will the water affect the powder charge? No.

Can't measure lands and grooves yet because the gunsmith still has it, but I picked up some Remington #11 caps, .495 balls, and a pound of Pyrodex RS just because I couldn't find any real BP locally. If they don’t sell it at the club you can order it from Grafs or Powder Valley when they have free hazmat shipping specials.

So, the Fg indicates grain size, and the more F's the smaller grains? Measuring by volume, I have a Neilson benchrest powder measure, will that work? Get a black powder measure, adjustable or they come in fixed sizes, they are cheap. A powder flask/horn is usually required at most clubs.

 

[Frontier's]

1:32 will shoot patched balls but at a much slower velocity. Max will most likely be around 60gr 2fg. Any more in my cva mountain stalker, it throws them wild.

 

[necchi]

, welcome new guy,, it's fun stuff, back to the basics of actual "hand loading",,

I have a Neilson benchrest powder measure, will that work?

Not well, there's a bunch of us cf loaders here, it's a bit of a different ball game, but again, It's Fun!
Best advice,, read here for awhile,, hit the back pages, use the search,,
This place is an "Encyclopeidia" of experianced and professional lessons to be found,

 

[mikesto44]

Simple rule when loading a black powder gun. B.W.G.
It stands for : black for powder, white for patch and grey for ball.
Also mark your ramrod for when the gun is empty and loaded. Might just save you a lot of trouble later...

 

[necchi]

Simple rule when loading a black powder gun. B.W.G.
It stands for : black for powder, white for patch and grey for ball.

That's a simple rule? Uhm? Who made that up?
And how does it apply to this topic of "Accuracy"?

 

[Boomerang]

You will need to learn how to remove your own "dry ball" or you will be taking it to a gunsmith a lot!

 

[mikesto44]

That's a simple rule? Uhm? Who made that up?
And how does it apply to this topic of "Accuracy"?

I goofed up. Hopefully it didn't ruin your day . A few minutes before I was reading about all the people who forget to properly load their b p guns. So I accidentally commented.
Oh and the rule or quote I wrote was told to me when I first started shooting b.p. guns 60 some years ago.
Never dry balled a gun yet... So now you know...

 

[smokepolehall]

I have a 1:28 Blk. Dia. it will shoot 2.5" groups at 75 yards using 70 gr of 3 f Goex. So keep powder charge on lower side, it should shoot decent but not great on 100 yard accuracy. Heck maybe your steady as a rock n that in itself will go a long ways in accuracy.

 

[William O.]

az@JDBraddy, is your Neilson measure calibrated for black powder? Just go ahead and buy a volumetric powder, measure the bore, apply some rust inhibiting lubricant (Barricade from your gunsmith).

Dry the bore, apply some rust inhibiting lubricant (Barricade from your gunsmith) and store muzzle down to allow excess liquid drain from the breech.
Grenadier175

Sage advice. Barricade is the best and you can buy it online.
I like getting my own patch material and cleaning material myself. Places like JoAnns, Wal-Mart, and other type stores have what's called mattress ticking or in some cases it's called pillow ticking. Either one should work as long as it is 100 % natural. No synthetics! They will melt and become one with the bore of your barrel! It should Mic to about .015-018. Don't go using it until you've washed the starch out. Wash and dry this material then cut off the frayed material. Yes, you loose some but that's just how it is. While you're at the fabric store, get some 100% cotton flannel. About a yard should last you. You don't have to wash it first either. Use this material to clean and swab the bore with it. I cut the ticking into strips just wider than your barrel. You lube the ticking material before you go shooting. I swab the bore after each shot with the cotton flannel patch that has been barely damped by rubbing alcohol. I mean barely dampened too, if you can squeeze a drop out it's too much. Use one patch on your cleaning jag to swab the bore, down and up. You may want to turn the patch over and repeat but discard the used patch appropriately. The alcohol cuts the fouling and the soft flannel gathers it all up. Do this before cleaning and you'll be surprised at how much fouling is removed.

As for patch lube, there are literally hundreds of thousands of recipes that I won't say one is better than the other. I just know what works for me.

Good luck, be safe and have fun.

 

[CyrusP]

I goofed up. Hopefully it didn't ruin your day . A few minutes before I was reading about all the people who forget to properly load their b p guns. So I accidentally commented.
Oh and the rule or quote I wrote was told to me when I first started shooting b.p. guns 60 some years ago.
Never dry balled a gun yet... So now you know...

You happen to be correct and in context with this post. OP is new to BP so a simple thing like BWG could save some trouble with a dry ball down the road. He DID ask for more than accuracy assistance.