accuracy

[brazosland]

Sort of depends on your circumstances.

Good example…in a pinch you can drop a bare ball down a rifled barrel and it will give reasonable accuracy at 40 yards. Did that very thing when I need a very fast follow up shot on a wounded deer a couple years ago.

This was widely known and done in the 18th century.

Bare ball in a smoothie gives good accuracy once you sort out the load the gun likes. What is “good accuracy”? Well that depends. At 50 yards I can hit you somewhere above your belt buckle and below your Adams Apple. Good enough. And quick, if you are trying to do the same to me.

By adding a patch, I can hit you in the face at that range (on a good day!).

So both work, it just depends on what you need. In a fight, faster is better. Not fumbling with a patch is even better, still. Shooting at a mark, more accurate is better and speed doesn’t matter.

Patched ball in smooth gun likely just wasn’t needed much back then. Game was closer, Indians were too…so it just didn’t need to be done I suspect.

But arguing that they didn’t know about the benefits of using a patch…that’s just stupid in my opinion. Of course they did.

 

[ead]

Having the ball roll away from the powder charge can be a very dangerous thing, A friend burst his barrel that way.
I get a noticeable increase in accuracy when I leave the paper attached to the ball. I would also assume that's what they did in a military situation. Taking the time to take off the paper could result in giving your opponent time to kill you.

 

[brazosland]

Having the ball roll away from the powder charge can be a very dangerous thing, A friend burst his barrel that way.
I get a noticeable increase in accuracy when I leave the paper attached to the ball. I would also assume that's what they did in a military situation. Taking the time to take off the paper could result in giving your opponent time to kill you.

Nobody pulled the paper cartridge off the ball. In fact, in military cartridges the balls were Significantly undersized.

Bare balls are very close to bore size…if they shoot well. Two of my smooth guns like a .600 ball with a patch and a .610 ball bare. You have to remember the bore will be dirty, maybe real dirty, so the bare ball ain’t rolling around in the bore like a pin ball. It gets grabbed and held in place by the fouling.

 

[Clark Badgett]

Nobody pulled the paper cartridge off the ball. In fact, in military cartridges the balls were Significantly undersized.

Bare balls are very close to bore size…if they shoot well. Two of my smooth guns like a .600 ball with a patch and a .610 ball bare. You have to remember the bore will be dirty, maybe real dirty, so the bare ball ain’t rolling around in the bore like a pin ball. It gets grabbed and held in place by the fouling.

The US musket ball was increased to .65” from .64” of the French as the early US government found that just adding .010” to the ball doubled the accuracy.

I too think they rammed the ball with the entire empty paper tube still on it.

 

[54ball]

True bare ball shooting (just powder and ball) in the18th Century is rather rare and was done in “special” circumstances.
These circumstances include loading on the run or “quick shots”.

Incidentally these accounts usually involve rifles. The two most famous being the exploits of Lewis Wentzel and Simon Kenton.

Some type of wadding was used in a smoothbore gun.

Here are some examples of period wadding.
Tow from flax
Palmetto palm
Spanish Moss
Leaves*
Paper
Wool*
Wool blanketing
Wasp nesting*
Leather*
Waxed paper#
Waxed Wadding*#

Tow, Spanish Moss, Palmetto fibers, blanket fragments, and paper I know are documented.
* assumed but right now I cannot recall the reference
# waxed paper cartridges..... well documented in the 19th Century
*# waxed or lubed wadding
I cannot recall a reference for lubed or wax wadding. I have done it it works really well but the idea may come from greased patches ( rifles) or the military waxed cartridge.....

From above we can deduce a smoothbore gun used some type of fiber wadding material.

Real archeology vs experimental archeology.....

Real Archeology

The x rayed river guns....
These show powder, wadding (palmetto), ball, wadding.

Experimental archeology.....
Actually using the concept in in a real gun...
In this case using a fiber material like tow or Spanish moss as a cushion wad over the powder and another wad over the ball.

My personal opinion is this.....
A smoothbore gun shoots just as well, even better with wadding than it does with a patched ball.
My opinion based on the period loadings above. A smoothbore loaded in such a manner with wadding, is superior than a smoothbore loaded with a patched ball.
In short, it just works better.

This is my opinion from actually shooting these guns with wadding and a patched ball.
I have concluded a PRB is unique to rifles.
Why?
Wadding is just easier with no loss of accuracy and believe or not, even better accuracy than a patched round ball.

Wadding is more user friendly.

Multiple shots with in a smoothbore with a very tight PRB can be very difficult to load.
A really stuck patched ball, is a patched ball stuck in a smoothbore. A PRB will stick harder in a smoothbore than it will a rifle. At least a rifle has grooves so that helps some.
In a rifle the ball sticks hard to the lands. In a smoothbore the PRB sticks to the entire bore.

How I load a smoothbore with wadding....
I charge the powder...
I ram a wad
I drop a ball ( I may ram)
I ram a wad on top of the ball.
The gun can be loaded like this again and again. Ramming the wadding in some ways acts as wiping the bore.

I can use a worm or screw to pull the over ball wad. More often than not the ball easily comes out.
With the ball out, shot can be loaded. This can work vise versa.....

I have concluded..... just for me that......
Rifles and smoothbores are two separate animals.
Apples and oranges.

For the modern shooter, a PRB seems easier but most everyone started on rifles and they have a rifle mindset.

They are two different types of guns.

Paper cartridges.....
I think rifle mindset can pollute the musket shooter. I think we tend to make up paper cartridges with to large a ball. In other words, I believe to get many shots with cartridges requires a ball with plenty of windage to allow for a fouled bore. To large a ball and the paper wrapped ball will stick.
Lubed or wax paper tends to be more forgiving but the main issue is; for a battle load, the ball needs a good bit of windage in my opinion.

Powder charge.....
A wadded smoothbore tends to shoot straighter and has a longer range as the powder charge increases.
In my experience smoothbore guns tend to be more accurate with a heavier charge than a rifle of the same bore. Also the range tends to be extended with the heavier charge.
A theory you sometimes hear is a heavier charge makes the ball fly further, faster and straighter until it starts to yawl one way or the other as velocity decreases.
My experience shows there may be some truth to this.
Diminishing returns will be mainly from recoil and shootability.

The wadded load......
Sometimes the wadded load is wrongly referred to as a bare ball.
In reality we can consider a smoothbore loaded with an over powder and an over ball wad as a type of primitive sabot.
Upon firing, this 3 piece projectile goes down the bore as one unit. The ball is cushioned by the wadding so bore windage is minimal. As the projectile leaves the bore, the light over ball wad moves away and the heavy stabilized ball continues on it’s way. The light over-powdere wad quickly slows.

Just some thoughts....

 

[flntlokr]

i heard a man on a video that i believe is knowledgeable on BP guns. he said he used no patch on his smoothbore, as they of course didn't in the past. he said it wasn't needed because the ball was centered down the bore by the gas from the explosion. i do not have a smoothbore gun but this seems plausible to me. one of these days i will have one, just never ran across one to buy, would this be correct? i have a friend who does have one and we will eventually do a test on this,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I can only say that I never noticed much difference, but I haven't shot much patchless. I find that patchless shooting fills the barrel with fouling to an incredible degree. I have often heard that the secret to accurate smoothbore shooting is enhanced by muzzle velocity; i.e., a fast ball shoots straighter. With my limited experience, I tend to agree. An unpatched ball will allow the escape of a large portion of your explosive energy, so a slower ball. My theory regarding the loss of accuracy is that as the ball slows due to air resistance, the tiny (or not so tiny) imperfections on the ball starts to 'catch air', resulting in unpredictably altered trajectories. (same with a pitched baseball where the pitcher can bring about other-than-straight trajectories by carefully altering his release and spin on the ball) I might be totally out to lunch with that, but it explains a lot.

 

[Rebel bull]

look up the saying "bite the bullet" it is said that continental soldiers literally bit the ball to deform it slightly to fit the bore better

 

[OldSmoky1967]

i heard a man on a video that i believe is knowledgeable on BP guns. he said he used no patch on his smoothbore, as they of course didn't in the past. he said it wasn't needed because the ball was centered down the bore by the gas from the explosion. i do not have a smoothbore gun but this seems plausible to me. one of these days i will have one, just never ran across one to buy, would this be correct? i have a friend who does have one and we will eventually do a test on this,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Likely he put in a wad of tow over the ball to hold it in.

 

[olskool]

Likely he put in a wad of tow over the ball to hold it in.

yes he did,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Clark Badgett]

look up the saying "bite the bullet" it is said that continental soldiers literally bit the ball to deform it slightly to fit the bore better

That’s not where that saying came from.

 

[jefair1]

I think bite the bullet came from the fact that is what you did as the surgeon dug out a bullet or amputated a limb.

 

[tenngun]

PRB vs wadded
PRB looks smaller but if you count up the size the two groups are about the same size
50 yards tested and my guns have a rear sight
Five shot group 3x3 compared to 4x2

 

[Clark Badgett]

I think bite the bullet came from the fact that is what you did as the surgeon dug out a bullet or amputated a limb.

Yes, it seems to have originated as a medical term, and it’s from at least the era of the English Civil War

 

[Wncman]

i heard a man on a video that i believe is knowledgeable on BP guns. he said he used no patch on his smoothbore, as they of course didn't in the past. he said it wasn't needed because the ball was centered down the bore by the gas from the explosion. i do not have a smoothbore gun but this seems plausible to me. one of these days i will have one, just never ran across one to buy, would this be correct? i have a friend who does have one and we will eventually do a test on this,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I saw one where the shooter used “tow”. It’s a product or by-product of spinning linen. A wad of it over the powder then another over the ball.(to keep the ball in the barrel). He stated that was traditional back then. (Smooth Bore) as far as the “centering “, I would suppose that would be determined by ball size in relation to caliber/bore.

 

[54ball]

look up the saying "bite the bullet" it is said that continental soldiers literally bit the ball to deform it slightly to fit the bore better

I believe you reference a “chawed” or chewed ball.
The chewed ball may have some basis in fact. Unless I see a good reference I’ll consider it a reenactorism.

The story is American Indians would chew on a ball making it tighter in the bore. This allowed a bare ball to be loaded and not roll out. It also reduced windage and is supposed to improve accuracy.

This caught on at some rondy shoots and shooter would make chawed balls by rolling them under a course rasp.

Until I see the documents, I’m skeptical.

 

[smo]

I always thought balls were chewed back into shape after being recovered from the dead animal… Human or not.

 

[tenngun]

I always thought balls were chewed back into shape after being recovered from the dead animal… Human or not.

Old brag recorded:
‘I’m the original iron jawed brass bellied….’

One would have to be pretty iron jawed to chew a ball in to a roundish shape

 

[Fitzhugh Williams]

As to chewing balls, the Canadien Milice brought their fusils from home, and they were of varying bore sizes. They were issued balls that were of a uniform size. Sometimes it was necessary to chew them go make them fit the bore.

 

[Clark Badgett]

As to chewing balls, the Canadien Milice brought their fusils from home, and they were of varying bore sizes. They were issued balls that were of a uniform size. Sometimes it was necessary to chew them go make them fit the bore.

Except the French made their bores to established sizes for which gauges were made. There were musket, carbine, hunting and pistol sizes. I would need to see hard primary documentation before I bought that story.

 

[Fitzhugh Williams]

Milice carried privately purchased guns made by different arsenals over a period of time. The calibers varied.