advice needed CVA Mountain Rifle .54

[dave524]

it really doesn't sound like a Big Bore CVA Mountain Rifle, what with the blued finish and aluminum castings.

Late '80s MR and into the 1990s they did sport blued barrels. Some years they had walnut stocks. The MR is not in the 1985 catalog but was a special, limited edition in the 1990 and 1999 catalogs.

In a few days I'll have '84, '88 and the '91 catalogs and might be able to shed some more light on the aluminum hardware. This post is the first time I've heard of such.

OK, was not aware of the changes other than made in Spain, mine is an old American made 50 cal., 4 screw patchbox and octogon ramrod pipes, believe I got it in 76 or 77 and got my first deer with it. Think the big bores came later after the move in production .

 

[swathdiver]

...mine is an old American made 50 cal., 4 screw patchbox and octogon ramrod pipes, believe I got it in 76 or 77 and got my first deer with it. Think the big bores came later after the move in production .

Yep, he MR was introduced in the 1976 catalog in .45 and .50 and were available like yours until 1978. In '79 the Big Bores came out along with the 2 screw patch boxes and round pipes on the .45s and .50s which means to me to refer to now Spanish production. Quality from the ones I have and have seen does not seem to have suffered by going to offshore production.

There was even a year when the barrels were chrome lined.

 

[rusty]

the rifle that I was asking about does not have a patch box,reddish brown stock blued barrel and what looks to be either aluminium or pot metal for end cap,trigger guard and butt plate.I spoke to the young man again,says he was told the rifle is old 1955,and that it was rare,not much I can say to him without him thinking that I am trying to take advantage of him,sometimes you just have to walk away..nuff said

 

[Pete44ru]

.

What you're calling pot metal may be just that - pewter.


.

 

[JonnyReb3]

I've got one in my lap as i type, has a cast pot metal silver triggerguard, probably weighs an oz at best. These were used late in the Mt. rifles manufacture, or by Deer Creek when they released the Mt rifle kit guns. This metal is FAR different from what came on the 70's-80's guns. I've had 4 different CVA Mt. rifles and none of them were the same.

 

[slumlord44]

Recently bought two of these. .54 and .58. Neither are marked US or Spain or are marked Mountain Rifle. Where were they made?

Can't seem to get photobucket to download the photos from my phone. Will post photos when I figure it out. Compared the two closely. They both have the pewter/aluminum forend cap. The .58 has a browned barrel. It was a kit. The .54 has a blued barrel. Not sure if it was a kit or not. Neither has the patch box which seems to be right for the Big Bore. They both are marked CVA, Black powder only, and the caliber and serial number. No model name, no US or Spain. Waiting for good weather and .570 round balls to try them both out.

 

[JonnyReb3]

My thought would be that they were CVA kits,(the blued barrel may have been a factory finished rifle) 80's or 90's. Those barrels, if proofmarked, are spanish. From what i think i remember reading, imported barrels are all proofed. The proofmarks can identify the country or origin. The only U.S. barrels came on the very first few rifles in the mid 70's, and again possibly on the very last Deer Creek kit guns. The U.S. barrels were marked U.S.A. and the late barrels had nothing but caliber, not even any proofmarking. I also remember reading somewhere that the only true, all US made Mt. rifles were the first prototypes, that even the U.S. marked late 70's rifles had spanish components. I could be partially incorrect about some of this, has been years since i studied on them. Others here undoubtably have more info.

One way or the other, i think the CVA Mt rifle is one of the finest 20th century muzzleloaders that was made..maybe not the best in terms of some materials used, or the best lock design..but the look, weight, balance, "feel" and accuracy are exceptional..in my opinion.

 

[necchi]

Only the first few hundred barrels were made in the USA.
Barrels where then made in Spain, even several thousand marked "Made in USA",, the barrels were cut and rifled in Spain then shipped here before they were breeched thus avoiding the need for the proof stamps.
The largest compilation of fact vrs myth available about the CVA Mountain Rifle is indeed here on this forum buried in the archives in two topics started by member Walks Alone
Both threads need to be read and all the links followed to find the truth.
It's kind of sad how much misinformation is out there and many times it becomes a heated discussion because people just "know!".
Walks Alone gave up years ago, growing weary of the endless battles with the myth mongers.

Where's John Gault? :wink:

 

[mooman76]

So, he is truly "Walks Alone". :haha:

 

[JonnyReb3]

Hey Necchi! It was you that got me to the old threads on the CVA Mt. rifle barrels a while back, indeed the threads by Walks Alone were where i got my best info i think, i've just forgotten some of the particulars. Thanks for bringing that up, i need to read all that again.

Now i can't remember the particulars on those first barrels...were they really Douglas made or not? Most all of the googled threads seem to suggest so, seems like some folks said not. Anyways..i also read where Douglas sold Deer creek the original mill machine used after the CVA barrels ran dry. The very last Mt. rifles sold by DC had American made barrels on them, not sure the origin of the steel used but they were rifled by the same Douglas machine used for the originals. Ever heard that one? Not trying to spread a myth..i did read that though on a thread or two online.

For some reason, CVA history is darned interesting to me in a way that the T\C's never were. :stir:

I think John Gault has left the building

 

[kh0456]

I built my Big Bore .58 back in the early 80s from a kit. It came with a barrel marked from Spain. I finished it in hot brown. Still have the rifle and love it. I recently refinished the stock.... Came out great! If anyone wants to see photos of any part of it I can post them.
That's one of three CVA rifles I built around the same time. Kentucky flinter in .45 and a .32 squirrel rifle. Have them all.

 

[swathdiver]

...and what looks to be either aluminium or pot metal for end cap,trigger guard and butt plate.

My '84, '88 and '91 CVA catalogs came in the mail today. The MR was listed as "NEW" (reintroduced) in the '88 catalog and indeed was offered with pewter nose cap, trigger guard and butt plate. Same as the '90 and '91 catalogs. The trigger guards were of the kind used for the Kentucky rifle, Frontier Rifle and Squirrel Rifle.

The '88 catalog lists the stock as European Walnut with a fully formed beavertail cheekpiece.

The '90 and '91 catalogs lists the stock as select hardwood with low cheekpiece for the standard model and fancy grade walnut with fully formed cheekpiece for the Premier Grade with a chromed bore.

My NIB '76 MR had aluminum ramrod tips and aluminum cleaning jag.

The '88 catalog says the same.

The '90 and '91 catalogs mention aluminum ramrod tips with brass jags but the photos show brass ramrod tips for both years.

In '84 the .50 cal in flint and percussion were offered finished and as a kit. The .54 could be had both ways but the .58 was only available as a kit that year.

In '88,'90 and '91 the MR was only available in finished form in both .50 and .54 calibers according to those catalogs.

Yes, please post photos!

 

[kh0456]

I built my Big Bore .58 back in the early 80s from a kit. It came with a barrel marked from Spain. I finished it in hot brown. Still have the rifle and love it. I recently refinished the stock.... Came out great! If anyone wants to see photos of any part of it I can post them.
That's one of three CVA rifles I built around the same time. Kentucky flinter in .45 and a .32 squirrel rifle. Have them all.

Ok, my bad.... my Big Bore .58 doesn't say Spain. Its my Kentucky that says Spain. The big bore doesn't say where it was made though. Here are some photos of it.

 

[bubba.50]

good lookin' gun Johnny Dollar. :thumbsup: i'm just a little bit jealous :grin: .

 

[necchi]

those first barrels...were they really Douglas made or not?,,,,, then Douglas sold Deer creek the original mill machine,,,
Ever heard that one?

Yup. In a phone conversation with the now retired owner previous of DC a few years back, (one of the last living men that was party too the beginnings of the MR) he said only a couple hundred came off the Douglas machines.
The real details are found in the many links in those threads, it takes some time to do the digging.
I don't wanna turn this into one of those threads.
Walks Alone was on GB's too, like several others he got tired of all the,,, well, just tired.

 

[rusty]

That is a very nice rifle..

 

[JonnyReb3]

Went digging last night Necchi, there are some great bits of info in those old threads, interesting stuff and indeed there is a lot of confusion among folks as to the origin of the first MR's, even more about the first few production years. One thing for sure, may be the most argued about subject concerning production ML'ers of the last 35+ years.

Now i'm kicking myself for selling some of mine, think i want them back.

 

[slumlord44]

Beautiful rifle. I thought that CVA's were great guns for the money when I got my Kentucky Kit back in the '70's. I never thought they would ever be Collectable and popular now. Glad I kept all the free catalogs from back then.

 

[necchi]

One thing for sure, may be the most argued about subject concerning production ML'ers of the last 35+ years.

Yup, it's a tuff one.

 

[Billnpatti]

I think I would be looking at that one on Gunbroker. You might get a much better deal.