ADVICE on pricing this Traditions Custom Build

[cynthialee]

you certainly turned a sows ear into a silk purse, but top price?
$900 from a sucker

you might get $600 from it

If you were to do that to a TC Hawken or a Lyman GPR, you would get better return on your investment of time and money. Now the Traditions rifles are great entry shooters, however what you did kind of reminds me of the kid I knew who put $3000 rims on an old Hyundai.

Kibler kit is the way to go. You will certainly be able to command much more.

 

[tgfrench]

Vet, I have to say I'm torn in my response. I tend to agree with the under value of "production kit" guns such as traditions. I have my own "pig" of a gun that I've put lots of time and effort into gussining up but it is by rights still a pig. In my mind it certainly has more value than I perhaps will ever see from it. Yet, If your gun prints well on paper and handles well, you can carry it with pride up until that one person comes along and sees it with the same value as you do. From the skill you have shown building that kit, you have proved the skills to build more expensive custom rifles. Just my two cents. Have fun with it and show off what you have.

 

[appalichian hunter]

Nice looking rifle, but not a 1900.00-dollar gun. Perhaps 500.00 dollars top. Enjoy your gun. With your skill set you would be best to go with a Kibler kit, but even then, with your time taking it to the next level you can make a few dollars off it. I honestly believe you did waste a few hundred hours in monetary values as to work, but in saying that you gained knowledge of what it takes to build a nice long rifle.

 

[CVA Enthusiast]

Now not wanting to bash on anyone`s work Traditions is a decent line pending kit and caliber I have see $1000 prices for KITS in the box I put together this has got some bells and whistles and is assembled. $800 does not seem to far of a reach, Hey slap $800 on it you know what you have in it, what you need from it don`t pull the food off your table, However realize Fillet Mignon might have to settle for hamburger

 

[appalichian hunter]

IMPO having sold, worked on many muzzleloaders and put a few together you aren't gonna get much over 500$ if 500$ .
You may have been better off to find a Thompson Center Hawken in good condition or Great Plains. Then upgraded the lock ,picked up a really nice piece of wood to restock.
But even then with all the work you'd have to put into it ,I don't think you'd ever regain your time vs money.

BP Bill, I don't see where it was posted for sale, the builder was asking on price range values. I think honest answers were given, sometimes some folks jump the gun on reciting post rules, really don't think in this case RULE 21 really applies. The poster even asked for honest opinions and seems like they were given.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Take a look at some of the builds in The Gun Builders Bench section of this forum. Do a search there on Dave Person and look at some of his builds. Also you might check the American Long Rifle forum and look at guns there. I have no doubt you have the skills. Those will give you an idea of what is possible. I sorta feel like the critic who doesn’t have a lick of talent to write his own play or book. I can build a feed bunk and if the cattle don’t push too hard it won’t collapse and if the legs are different lengths it’s on uneven ground anyway.

 

[JJohnson2023]

Just a beginner here but Traditions has their kits about 75-100 dollars less than finished products. This being a beautiful piece of craftsmanship I wouldn't fault you adding 250-300 dollars to the price you payed for the kit.

 

[azmntman]

I'd say $750.00. just wait for the buyer he is out there. You have any interest in jobs I bet you could talk somebody into having you carve their kibbler. Saw an insane nice squirrel carved into a production gun and if IRC it went for close to a grand. You do stuff like that?

 

[necchi]

(and since I have thick skin, don't be afraid to to tell me I wasted a few hundred hours for nothing).

Your time wasn't wasted. What IS the value of learning?
But it's still a Traditions kit,, you should keep it.

. My impeccable work since then has routinely sold in the over $5,000 range for new stock builds

Or ponder humility as your next life lesson.
Your choice.

p.s. there ain't 5k worth of butt plate install with this lesson. And I have seen 5K+ ML's.

 

[SOLANCO]

Do not just look at rifles in books and on line. I have attended many exhibits of long rifles over the years. The most beautiful guns were not beautiful because of bling. I would almost say they were beautiful despite the bling.
Some of the most beautiful guns I have ever seen were British "best" guns. In all of them you saw the gun first. It was only on further study that you noted the details of engravings, inlays, and checkering.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

Hi all - for background, I've been building custom stocks (rifles/shotguns) since the early 70's, having apprenticed under the demanding and critical eyes of two of the old masters who drilled into my brain and hands everything they learned during their decades of gun-building at L.C.Smith (the old factory was in my growing up town). My impeccable work since then has routinely sold in the over $5,000 range for new stock builds depending on the level of carving, checkering, inletting precision, complexity, etc.
This Tradition build is my first "entry" into building a muzzleloader - a Traditions Shenandoah. For this build, I pushed the relief carving limits of the available wood on the Traditions stock (not easy), did a lot of re-shaping of the lock sections, and did considerable antiquing on brass and wood finish. This rifle is carved both sides, tom and bottom, butt to muzzle. Clearly, having completed this first muzzleloader build, I fully respect the work that custom muzzleloader craftsmen produce.

That said - I'm completely at a loss for how much a new - unfired custom build of a Traditions kit is worth (yea, I know, a lot less than a custom build of a Kibler kit).
My thought is that this gun should easily fetch $1,800 - $1,900, but maybe it's only worth $500. Or maybe $3,500. Seriously, I know the value of my work in custom large caliber hunting rifles, but the muzzleloader world is completely new to me.

Advice is welcome (and since I have thick skin, don't be afraid to to tell me I wasted a few hundred hours for nothing). Thanks in advance.

Hi, you do excellent work. Besides the harsh criticism posted, I think you should be able to get between $600.00 to $800.00 dollars for it. I just sold an older CVA, hand carved in much the same way, Hawkin on GunBroker.com for $600.00 that was used. You should be able to get more than that for it. Semper Fi.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

Do not just look at rifles in books and on line. I have attended many exhibits of long rifles over the years. The most beautiful guns were not beautiful because of bling. I would almost say they were beautiful despite the bling.
Some of the most beautiful guns I have ever seen were British "best" guns. In all of them you saw the gun first. It was only on further study that you noted the details of engravings, inlays, and checkering.

I agree 100% with this statement. I see a fancy gun, I walk away. Fancy is not me, but that's me. Just a plain ordinary Joe who likes a low profile. Semper Fi.

 

[Frontier's]

You'll get over 500 bucks. These guys don't have a clue. I restored a lot of cva hawken rifles and most of them fetch 500+. An unfinished cva mountain rifle I had sold for 750.

Plus there's a lot of snobs on here that look down their noses at cva and traditions guns. They'll tell you your stuff is cheap junk and shoot you a dollar store price, unless it's their gun they are selling. Then it's Tiffany prices.

 

[Two Feathers]

Well you can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig

That was going to be my response too. Thank you for getting that out there.:~)))
Buy a Kibler kit and do it over. Just chalk this one up to "Sperience." Sell it for whatever you can get out of it. I'm sure someone will give you $500.00 for it. Just my opinion.
God bless:
Two Feathers

 

[Mark E. Prickett]

Everyone seems to miss out on the reliability of Traditions locks*, the reliability of the wood in their stocks, and the quality of their barrels. Shame on you poos for poo-pooing this man's piece.

*Yeah, my Shenandoah was rebored to .46 bore because the guy that sold it to me on this forum didn't mention that it had been ringed. And yall think scam artists are bad these days!

What is ringed?

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

What is ringed?

When a foreign object like a bullet or ball is stuck somewhere in the barrel and not pulled. It causes pit rings to form fore and aft of the stuck item. Semper Fi.

 

[PathfinderNC]

Brazos John - THANK YOU.

If I build more, I shall document the full build. Muzzleloader building is a new discipline for me, but I will only build more if they will literally rank among the best. That's the only way I built custom rifles for my clients, and that's the only way I will build custom muzzleloaders.

Much of the knowledge I've gained building many, many dozens of premium rifles over 5 decades translate well to muzzleloaders, but there is so much I don't know about pre-1850s firearms.

Nosce te ipsum

Well from your self- acknowledgement you sure seem to be an expert at building rifles. Most great builders I have seen don’t self- proclaim so, but their work speaks for them. Perhaps a few photos of your highly acclaimed work could be posted here? If they are modern guns, detail shots of your carvings, etc., would probably be great. Unless, like many of our finest builders, you have a website?

 

[PathfinderNC]

Vet, I have to say I'm torn in my response. I tend to agree with the under value of "production kit" guns such as traditions. I have my own "pig" of a gun that I've put lots of time and effort into gussining up but it is by rights still a pig. In my mind it certainly has more value than I perhaps will ever see from it. Yet, If your gun prints well on paper and handles well, you can carry it with pride up until that one person comes along and sees it with the same value as you do. From the skill you have shown building that kit, you have proved the skills to build more expensive custom rifles. Just my two cents. Have fun with it and show off what you have.

Terry you have done fine work “gussying up” your rifle ( that wrist checkering and inlay are top notch in my eyes!). But the proof is in the pudding as you took First Honors in our club Woods Walk. Yeah, it’s really how the gun and its owner work together and preform that says it all at the end of the day ( though there’s nothing wrong about a rifle being pretty)! Hope to see you next shoot!

 

[EC121]

From a style standpoint an opportunity was missed. The shot of the nosecap shows how much wood should have been removed. Notice the wood standing proud of the nosecap. The fore-end should have been cut down thinner from the nosecap to the first ramrod pipe to match the nosecap. and a molding cut beside the ramrod channel.. Also the nosecap should have been replaced with a better one. The difference between an elegantly shaped stock and a club is about 1/16".

 

[user 59734]

Well from your self- acknowledgement you sure seem to be an expert at building rifles. Most great builders I have seen don’t self- proclaim so, but their work speaks for them. Perhaps a few photos of your highly acclaimed work could be posted here? If they are modern guns, detail shots of your carvings, etc., would probably be great. Unless, like many of our finest builders, you have a website?

Hi Pathfinder - Although I didn't "acclaim" anything other than what customers pay for certain custom builds, and that I've been building for a 1/2 century give or take, that's OK to question. I'm sure that a lot of what you see here is posted by people who are "all hat and no cattle".

To make a point, there are more than a few custom stockmakers and checkers (who you've also probably never heard of) who make an effort to "acclaim" themselves to provide new customers a little background, these two for example: About – The Stock Doctor and Metal and Wood Home - but we all have different scopes of specialties that we like and different ways to communicate that information.

And although Keith is no longer building, he provides a little "self acclaiming" on his muzzleloader builds. About

It's interesting to note that, not unlike many other custom builders that you don't know, we usually have secondary income sources - from building duck calls, to selling wood refinishing chemicals. Mine includes developing artificial intelligence software, and teaching custom gun building as faculty at a gunsmithing college.

It's tough to make a living relying solely on building custom guns.

Many of my photos go back to the mid to late '70s, some being now faded Polaroids, but all obviously pre camera phone - we've not been successful at creating high resolution images from old grainy photos. That said, here are a few: A. H. GIBBS

The Winchester 1895 shown under "Repair • Restoration" was a ground-up museum restoration of General Ben Viljoen's personal rifle and now resides in the Boer War museum in South Africa. You can disregard the page on which I'm Testing the pricing for the Traditions muzzleloader since that's the subject of this discussion thread in the first place.

I agree: credentials matter.