All this talk of Enfield rifles got me thinking

[Murphy_Roberts]

Recently, I have seen many posts talking about Enfield Muzzleloading Rifles. Me personally I have my 16 gauge fusil and it hits all the things I want to have a hole in. However Ive been thinking about getting an Enfield Muzzleloading rifle. A local gentleman has hunted with an original made in 1861 since he was 14 years old and said its the best rifle he's ever owned (muzzleloading that is). My question is should I get an original or a good quality British Parker Hale. I have definitely seen enough negative stuff to stay away from the Italian Stallion rifles by Armi Sport, Navy Arms and Pedersoli.

 

[towgunner11h]

I have 2 Armi Sport muskets and they are both extremely well made, reliable, and accurate. That being said, if opportunity would knock, I would go with the Parker and Hale Enfield.

 

[SmoothboreMurph]

Recently, I have seen many posts talking about Enfield Muzzleloading Rifles. Me personally I have my 16 gauge fusil and it hits all the things I want to have a hole in. However Ive been thinking about getting an Enfield Muzzleloading rifle. A local gentleman has hunted with an original made in 1861 since he was 14 years old and said its the best rifle he's ever owned (muzzleloading that is). My question is should I get an original or a good quality British Parker Hale. I have definitely seen enough negative stuff to stay away from the Italian Stallion rifles by Armi Sport, Navy Arms and Pedersoli.

Well let me give you some insight. My grandfather has a Pattern 53 Enfield made in 1862. It has seen some use over the years and is about .585 diameter bore now. Recently I have been using it for paper shootin. I bought an NOE Bullet Mould for a .568" 627 Pritchett Ball and fire a paper cartridge. It groups nicely but past 100 yards its everywhere. So I stepped up to a .575" Lee Minié Ball Mould and it got me good to 300 yards. Those original enfields are cool and arent half bad. I have taken deer with my Snider Converted Enfield rifle and its basically the same thing minus the Muzzle loading part lol. Three things you'll need to see for yourself. The bore diameter, a lot of people back in the day bought up these old muzzleloaders and used then like shotguns which ruined the bores. A lot of enfields are either smoothbore or are opened up to .62 caliber due to so much use. Look for a good bore from .577"~.590". Secondly, prices of these rifles are typically $2,000+ for a 7/10 original rifle. Third is metal finish, how much blued finish is left. A lot of these rifles lost there blued finish over the years. On the other hand a good British Parker Hale (they made Italian Parker Hales as well) is .577 diameter and a 1/78" twist for the P53 and 1/56" twist for the P58 are usually 100% blued finish intact and are damn near the real thing. They are also expensive ranging from $800~$1200. So you have to say to yourself do I want to pay $800~$1200 for a good replica or $2,000~$3000 for the original. Depends on what you personally value. Imo I would get one of each but if I could only get one it would be an original P53.

 

[dave951]

I shoot a pair of Parkers in N-SSA competition.

 

[ResearchPress]

In UK rifle matches you’ll see a good number of original Enfields in use and putting in winning scores in competition out to 600 yards. I shoot an original Short Rifle, which are the pattern most often seen in competition use. Parker-Hale’s are also popular and in terms of performance between a good original and the P-H there’s little to choose.

For me at least, there’s an undeniable pleasure in taking an original rifle out to the range and getting it to shoot well.

David

 

[Stantheman86]

I'd go with a Birmingham produced Parker-Hale if you're looking for a shooter.

They are in my opinion better than originals because they use modern steel , are well fitted and you can say it's made in Birmingham, England not Italy.

The Italian repros shoot every bit as good as a P-H but they are just missing that extra something that the P-H's have.

If you want the history then go with an original. I myself have decided that I'm a shooter and a history nerd , more than a collector or museum curator so I have no need to maintain original weapons as shooters. I feel that my numerous Parker-Hale rifles are good stand in's for originals

 

[Bad Karma]

I have what I bel is an Euroarms Musketoon headed this way. It’s a presentation (for a salesman apparentl) so instead of the nice cartouche in the buttstock there’s an advert. I’m ok,with that since the rifle is intended for elk this fall and it’ll do just fine. Great little woods carbines…

 

[Ballshooter]

I just got a Euroarms Cook and Brother carbine basically a Enfield Musketoon but it's 1:48 5 land/groove it shoots excellent.

 

[Youngblood]

I have a pedersoli 3 band and theres nothing wrong with it and probably the most correct of the current makers. PH is great if you can find one too.

 

[Bad Karma]

I just got a Euroarms Cook and Brother carbine basically a Enfield Musketoon but it's 1:48 5 land/groove it shoots excellent.

That’s what this one should be as well. I’m not certain that Euroarms changed rifling patterns after they acquired Enfield

 

[Stantheman86]

I just got a Euroarms Cook and Brother carbine basically a Enfield Musketoon but it's 1:48 5 land/groove it shoots excellent.

I love the Cook and Brothers and I really want a Pedersoli 33" version. They are pretty much Enfields but I like the rear sight better , and the stock shape looks a little better to me.

I never use the ladder sight on my Enfields and "fine" , "half" and "full" sighting allow me to hit from 25 to 300+ yards, and my range doesn't go beyond that anyway. And truth be told, shooting at 300 yard steel swingers is basically just taking pot shots to me. I usually shoot at 100. So the ladder sight is more just cosmetic. The windage adjustable block sight of the Cook and Brother is way better for me.

Romano Rifles makes a really nice repro of a Confederate rifle, I forget the name,that is an Enfield clone. But their website is down. I had always wanted one.

 

[Muley Gil]

I shoot a 1858 P-H Naval rifle in N-SSA competition and before I bought a repro Smith carbine, I shot a P-H musketoon in carbine matches. A friend of mine shot an original 1862 Tower Enfield rifle musket in N-SSA skirmishes years ago. I shot a few times and it was very accurate.

 

[ResearchPress]

I have a pedersoli 3 band and theres nothing wrong with it and probably the most correct of the current makers. PH is great if you can find one too.

Insofar as I am aware, Pedersoli don’t use the progressive depth rifling of the later P.53 Rifle Musket, whereas Parker-Hale did. Whether this makes any difference in the shooting between them I don't know.

David

 

[OldSmoky1967]

I'd go with a Birmingham produced Parker-Hale if you're looking for a shooter.

They are in my opinion better than originals because they use modern steel , are well fitted and you can say it's made in Birmingham, England not Italy.

The Italian repros shoot every bit as good as a P-H but they are just missing that extra something that the P-H's have.

If you want the history then go with an original. I myself have decided that I'm a shooter and a history nerd , more than a collector or museum curator so I have no need to maintain original weapons as shooters. I feel that my numerous Parker-Hale rifles are good stand in's for originals

Great post! I agree 100%.

 

[Stantheman86]

Insofar as I am aware, Pedersoli don’t use the progressive depth rifling of the later P.53 Rifle Musket, whereas Parker-Hale did. Whether this makes any difference in the shooting between them I don't know.

David

Pedersoli doesn't use Progressive Depth rifling , which probably doesn't matter to 99% of prospective buyers but the ability to more easily use smaller Minies that load easier is totally worth tracking down a P-H

 

[ResearchPress]

Pedersoli doesn't use Progressive Depth rifling , which probably doesn't matter to 99% of prospective buyers but the ability to more easily use smaller Minies that load easier is totally worth tracking down a P-H

Not sure I understand the comment about loading. It doesn’t matter if it’s progressive or uniform depth rifling, the bore size is constant and the properly fitted Minie bullet will load the same with each. There may be some advantage in fouling control with the progressive depth rifling, which gets shallower towards the muzzle.

David

 

[TFoley]

That’s what this one should be as well. I’m not certain that Euroarms changed rifling patterns after they acquired Enfield

They acquired Parker-Hales assets, NOT Enfield Lock government arms manufactory.

Enfield Lock, after producing the various marks of muzzleloading firearms for the Crown and dependencies, went on to be the 'Enfield' in Snider-Enfield, Martini-Enfield, And Lee-Enfield. Also the 'EN' in STEN gun and BREN light machine gun.

 

[springfield art]

Recently, I have seen many posts talking about Enfield Muzzleloading Rifles. Me personally I have my 16 gauge fusil and it hits all the things I want to have a hole in. However Ive been thinking about getting an Enfield Muzzleloading rifle. A local gentleman has hunted with an original made in 1861 since he was 14 years old and said its the best rifle he's ever owned (muzzleloading that is). My question is should I get an original or a good quality British Parker Hale. I have definitely seen enough negative stuff to stay away from the Italian Stallion rifles by Armi Sport, Navy Arms and Pedersoli.

Yeah, go for the Parker Hale.

 

[springfield art]

Yeah, go for the Parker Hale.

Also, getting an original will entail all sorts of problems, you'll no doubt have to have it re-lined or something, small springs will break, etc. They'll be corrosion in the flash-way, etc.

 

[ResearchPress]

Also, getting an original will entail all sorts of problems, you'll no doubt have to have it re-lined or something, small springs will break, etc. They'll be corrosion in the flash-way, etc.

Many people shoot original rifles without having them re-lined, or any other significant problems. In international competition under MLAIC rules, if the bore is re-lined then it would not classify as an original arm, but could be used in the reproduction class.

David