Alternate Hawken options

[mushka]

Yes I did, about 30 years ago. I sanded the curved portion of a 54 cal TC hawkin kit I built flat and attached a plastic shotgun butt plate I had on hand. The curved butt on the rifle wouldn't fit properly with winter clothes. Still have the rifle and still shoot it.

 

[sgtprovo]

I've decided to post mine here in the classified section instead of going thru the rework part.
I'm getting too old now, the old days are gone for me now.
Thanks for you reply, God bless, Paul

 

[AZbpBurner]

Instead of chopping, cutting, sending, spending & cursing, just get a Lyman Deerstalker. I got mine when they dropped the lefthand .54 cal flint from the catalog, but a retailer had one on sale, just to get rid of it. While I am lefthanded, I learned flint shooting with original righthand locks, but the LH was no problem. A couple of flint snobs at my range pointed and laughed at my low end, budget Deerstalker, but it plinked grapefruit set out at the 100 yard line all day long. A lighter sear plunger spring gives a lighter and more positive trigger, too.

 

[Stantheman86]

Dam I didn't know gun snobbery was as specialized as there being "flint snobs"

I love it, gun snobs make me smile , especially when you shoot better than them

 

[mushka]

From what I've seen of muzzle loaders, the expensive one's merely look nicer. They don't seem to shoot any better than the lesser priced guns with a decent marksman. I like functionality, not beauty particularly.

 

[sgtprovo]

There are some folks out there that are just interested in "show" no matter what the cost. Form and function is just as important.
I bought both of my Hawken Rifles in the hope of leaving one to each grandson,
unfortunately they'd rather play video games and play basketball, baseball, and don't have
a keen interest in the great outdoors. Why a young man would want a $ 1,250 Hawken Rifle for free is beyond me !!!

 

[Gregory Mitchell]

I haven't read all the pages of this thread, but has anybody suggested to the OP that he consider a Pedersoli Traditional Hawken? I have both a TH .50, and a maple-stocked Rocky Mountain Hawken in .50, and the TH would definitely be my go-to as a hunting rifle. It carries a 28.75" (or thereabouts) barrel and is noticeably lighter to pack around than the RMH -- and much less tiring to shoot offhand. My TH (and my RMH, for that matter) have given their best accuracy with Lee R.E.A.L. cast bullets (250 grains more or less) pushed by healthy charges of Triple Seven 2F. My Traditional model (purchased from Cabela's, as was my RMH) came with an excellent micro-adjustable rear sight blade with high-viz inserts.

 

[Cowboy]

Smokey, my man, where do you come up with this stuff--the internet? Or are you just making it up?

What's the basis of "Hawkens [sic] rifles were meant to be mostly carried on horseback, carried by the horse."

Early trade up the Missouri river was conducted with the use of keel boats, not horses. The hunters that provided the meat for the boat crew occasionally used horses, but primarily hunted on foot. True, Ashley's men, the Rocky Mountain Fur Company men, and the American Fur Company men preferred horses when crossing the plains when they could get them and keep them, but the Indians regularly stole their horses and left them afoot.

The horse wasn't much good during trapping season in the mountains. The snow was often drifted and too deep for a horse to get through. Besides, there was so little feed for the horses that they barely were able to stay alive during the winter. The trappers often had to strip bark off of trees to feed their horses. The mountain men ran their trap lines primarily on foot.

William Sublette and Black Harris made at least two trips from the mountains all the way to St. Louis on foot. They left the mountains in winter, and the snow was too deep and the horses in too poor a shape to try to ride.

People traveling with caravans and wagon trains typically walked alongside the wagons. This was the case for the Santa Fe trail and the Oregon, California, and Mormon trails. Sam Hawken himself walked from St. Louis to Denver during the 1859 gold rush. He was 67 at the time.

A typical Hawken rifle weighs little more than a Lancaster trade rifle. During the rendezvous period, most Hawken rifles were full-stock and weighed the same as a trade rifle.

They [Hawken rifles] belonged to a group called the “Plains Rifles”.

"Plains Rifle" is a modern term. It was made up by collectors in the middle of the 20th century and established in our lexicon by Charles E. Hanson, Jr. with his book by that title. Sam Hawken called his rifles "mountain rifles" in his 1882 newspaper interview. Sam's son, William S., frequently ran advertisements in the newspaper for "Mountain rifles... made to order" after he took over the shop in 1855.

They were mostlay [sic] percussion or late flint half stock guns with stout barrels and big bores, made to take down the larger western aminals [sic].

I'm not sure what you are referring to as "late flint half stock guns". American made flint half stock guns are pretty rare. The English were making them, but by the time half stocks became popular in America, we were well into the percussion period.

Really they were mostly custom affairs aside from some of the bigger names so you can get all sorts of barrel lengths.

I'm not sure if you are talking about your generic "Plains Rifle" or specifically about Hawken rifles here. Surviving J&S Hawken rifles commonly have barrel lengths around 38", some as long as 42". Fashions changed over time, and generally barrels were shorter after Jacob's death. They did make some custom rifles, but records show they made rifles for large orders from AFC and from John C. Fremont that weren't necessarily custom rifles.

The Pedersoli Hawken is based off the J&S St. Louis Hawkens and those were all bespoke rifles.

The Pedersoli Hawken more closely resembles a S. Hawken rifle. It was copied from the Uberti Hawken that was copied from the Cherry Corners/Ithaca Hawken which was a generic S. Hawken rifle.

Here are a few pics of my Uberti Hawken stamped, Log Cabin Shop, Lodi Ohio. Date code on this one is 1984.

Don’t know if Log Cabin built this one or someone else? Pretty sure it started its life as a kit gun.

Some of differences I’ve noticed on this one compared to usual offerings I’ve seen in the past are: Patch Box added. Reshaped lock panel’s. Really adds a touch of class. Reshaped forearm.

Here are a few pictures I’d like to share of mine. We always love pics to go along with the topic.

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[IL Rifle]

I read a page or so back the OP bought a rifle he hopes will meet his needs. However, since he has a couple of T/C Hawkens, what about just restocking one of them? The T/C parts are generally good solid parts and Pecatonica River makes an inletted replacement stock with more drop than the T/C stock. There may be others also. And The Hawken Shop still lists steel furniture to replace the T/C brass furniture. I suspect with a little extra inletting work the Renegade 1” barrel will fit in a Hawken replacement stock.

 

[nkbj]

I'd been seriously looking at getting a "full length" Hawken stock from them to use an octagonal to round barrel and shape the stock and barrel to use P53 barrel bands, use buffalo horn for the butt plate and nose cap, case color the TC trigger guard...
There's a Renegade .52 caliber flinter barrel that could use some exterior weight whittled off of it and a L&R lock. It would make an awesome rifle and might maybe still do it. The mad money is dedicated to a .39 bore left hander half stock at the moment to use a couple of molds and .38 round ball.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Here are a few pics of my Uberti Hawken stamped, Log Cabin Shop, Lodi Ohio. Date code on this one is 1984.

Don’t know if Log Cabin built this one or someone else? Pretty sure it started its life as a kit gun.

Some of differences I’ve noticed on this one compared to usual offerings I’ve seen in the past are: Patch Box added. Reshaped lock panel’s. Really adds a touch of class. Reshaped forearm.

Here are a few pictures I’d like to share of mine. We always love pics to go along with the topic.

Respectfully, Cowboy View attachment 18541View attachment 18542View attachment 18543View attachment 18544View attachment 18545View attachment 18546View attachment 18547

Oh Cowboy. Nice. No, VERY nice.... I like!

 

[Cowboy]

Thank you Griz. Barrel is stamped .54 but these Uberti Hawken rifles were actually .53 cal.

I cast .520 balls for it. Have an old Dixie scissor RB mould that I use. It casts pretty descent balls.

Been contemplating down the road to have Bobby Hoyt bore it out to a true .54 with a 1:66 twist, and .011 groove depth.

Maybe, Maybe not? She shoot’s 70 gr. Goex 3f, .520 ball, with .018 pillow ticking spit patch extremely well. Accurate as is! I’d only consider boring out to .54 for logistical reasons. Have several Hawken rifles in .54 already that I’m casting .530 and .535 for. Have to cast the .520 just for this one rifle.

Lastly, I personally don’t like the idea of having .54 stamped on the barrel when it’s actually a .53. Someday this rifle will be passed along to someone who might not know the story behind the smaller caliber than what’s stamped on the barrel?

Anyway, thank you for the compliments my friend.

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[Sun City]

Find a good location and sit on your butt! There’s plenty of nuts out there that will do the tromping to run something over you!

 

[Sixgun_Symphony]

Consider the Traditions Hawken Woodsman rifle. Buy the kit gun and you can do a better fit and finish than the factory finished guns.

This is a very light weight gun compared to the more expensive guns and the 28" barrel will be easier to carry in the densely forested areas. Some people will make rude comments about such a "cheap" gun. But they function well and the barrels are accurate. Put some craftsmanship effort into a kit gun and you will have an attractive, functional rifle that will harvest venison.

 

[LME]

send one of your tc hawkens to the oregon rifle barrel co. have them make a 30 inch drop in barrel .54 cal 1/66 twist for it. even 28 inches if you like. make sure the 54 has a 1/66 twist. it will shoot holes in holes at any range and be easier to carry. that twist is best for a .54 and can take a heavy charge or a light charge and still shoot holes in holes. keep that beautiful pedersoli as is. use it when your not walking around in the mountains. i have a 36 inch 50 cal oregon rifle barrel on my thompson hawken, it is a 1/28 twist. shoots paper patch or the cva copper hollow based bullet well enough to cut a snakes head off at 100 yards. it looks like a mountain man gun, it is a sleeper in that it shoots like a 50/90 sharps. i dont over load, i go for 80 grains of real black in it. just as the 50/90 sharps did. in meets i can shoot a patched round ball with a much reduced load very well at 25 or 50 yards. again if you like 54 round ball, a 1/66 twist will be your go to gun to hunt with. a 28 0r 30 inch barrel is plenty long enough. the twist is more important than the barrel length. ive had them made in 26 inches and they shot just as good as the 36 inchers as long as the twist was the right twist.

I found out the same thing you said is right on! A 1/66 twist rifling , .54 cal. and 80 grains of powder shooting a round ball will shoot a gnats eye out at a hundred yards. I also lower the charge to 60 grains of powder when shooting 50 yards or less. I found that you can lower your charge and keep excellent accuracy as long as you factor in the arc of the round. I also found out that once you reach optimum load for accuracy you can't go up without suffering with inaccurate shots.

 

[Muddly]

The only effect on accuracy caused by a shorter barrel is the loss of sight radius. The lesser distance between sights magnifies aiming errors.
Thanks a LOT for the barrel suggestion.
I've been considering having a 1-38 .50 caliber barrel made for one of my T/C Pennsylvania Hunter flintlocks...